Translucent-calyptratus?

[Jerm]

Just wanted to add that piebaldism in ball pythons originally came from a wild caught individual. This is something that can occur in the wild, they normally don't carry on due to predation and their ability to be spotted easily. I agree that they may not be appealing to someone who is used to a "normal" veiled, people are entitled to their own opinions. They are obviously surviving and reproducing so we are more than likely going to have to get used to them being around.

 

[jvillereptile]

almost all albino reptiles have originated in the wild and inbreeding is the way we were able to keep the morph alive. all i want to know was it a wild veiled found like that or did someone hatch it out of a normal pair of veiled. i will never own one but i would like to know the true history of it.

 

[Jerm]

I know what you are saying, and inbreeding is normally how these traits are brought out and kept going, but obviously no one here knows for sure that this is what went on. I'm not saying that I agree with this and would never use this method with any of my animals, but to each his own.

 

[Frank Castle]

My Opinion is, as stated in a previous post that I did about genetics, is.... At one point one of these chams was found/hatched, then breed. The F1 generation probably had a mixed genetic clutch (Some normal, some Translucent). F2 would have been some form of Imbreeding to get a full clutch of F3 Translucent. The breeder of these will continue to breed his Translucent pairs to get more Offspring. If these are bread with a normal cham I think very few would be translucent, in that dominant traits would over ride the Translucent. How ever, genetics are a funny thing in that any offspring of these guys may carry the traight(resesive) that could come out down the line again.

Frank

 

[Jordan]

I just wanted to apologize for the last post I made on here about these chameleons. I was sent a private message and did not realize how harsh my comment may have come across to some others until I reread it.

 

[Brad]

I don't have the specific education or knowledge to fully comment on some of the genetic/biological aspects, but personally I have very negative feelings towards these chameleons. Translucent skin, in my opinion, is just too much of a divergence from the standard.

 

[Chris Anderson]

Once upon a time people thought albinoism was a gene defect deformity.

That's because it is and still is actually

This is not a genetic defect

Yes, yes it is Holland, any alteration of the genetic sequence are genetic defects. Not all defects are deletarious but this is a genetic defect none the less. In this case, the defect is absolutely deleterious but the extent is the question.

this trait is 100% dominant.

My research into this trait was that it was actually recessive.

UV does not effect them in any way

Sorry Holland, that simply shows a complete lack of understanding of biological functions. Pigments are there to absorb UV rays and help protect the animal from their negative effects. A lack of such pigment results in increased sun damage. The impact will vary based on exposure and skin morphology but it is a deleterious effect, the only question is the extent to which it is deleterious.

Just a little FYI most of you dont know what you are talking about and are just making asumptions.

Strong words considering the errors/assumptions you're making about this condition without knowing what you are talking about...Careful, if you're going to play in genetic mutations and scientific terms, you need to know what you're talking about too, especially if you're doing it with money involved! I think you might be confused with technical terms, Holland, don't get yourself into trouble by making incorrect statements when selling these animals. I'm sure those purchasing them would be most upset if a lack of understanding of genetics caused them to spend a lot of money on something they aren't in fact getting.

They were not inbreed.

From what I remember, there were 1.2 of these caught in the wild and imported. If these are F3, these are inbred or will be if bred together.

Inbreed chameleons would have alot more problems and be dead before it ever got to soemthing like this.

Not necessarily actually, the damage from inbreeding could take a number of generations to show.

Are you saying that all the luesistic ball pythons should be put down?

Poor comparison actually. Ball pythons do not require UV radiation for calcium metabolic pathways, chameleons do. As a result, it is easy to keep similarly pigment lacking ball pythons away from UV damage resulting from their deformity, its a lot more complicated with veileds.

I sure hope a these animals end up with someone who actually knows what they are doing/talking about...No offense, Holland, but by the sound of your posts here, you've gotten in over your head and are making up a lot of facts without having the first clue of whats what. The issues with these animals are far greater then you obviously realize and they need to be studied before they start being mass produced. Enough veileds suffer UV/calcium issues without the added complication of a lack of pigment. These needs to be studied, not exploited and assumed to be as easy as any other veiled based on no data.

As soon as I get back from this side of the ocean, I'd love to talk seriously with you or anyone else about these animal's defect, what needs to be established and how it needs to be done before they start to suffer from a lack of knowledge of the defect and its resultant issues.

Chris

 

[Eric Adrignola]

What I fear is going to happen with chameleons is this:

These animals are going to have some sort of UV isses - pigment=UV protection. No pigment= NO UV protection. This may not present itself in the first few years, but it will eventually.

Besides, who's going to experiment with a $3,000 lizard? It's not been done yet, I'm sure.

It would greatly surprise me if anyone who has plunked down more than a few hundred on each of these would dare let them come into UVB radiation, for fear of losing their investment.

These things are going to end up being raised UVB free, at least. They'll grow and live, but they won't be normal. UV light affects their behavior to such a degree that without it, they're going to be vastly different animals.

We'll have animals with a defect that is truely deleterious, even to CB predation-free animals. As such, we'll adapt our care to fit their needs. In this case, it's going to be such a drastic shift: Limited, at best, UV/UVB exposure.

It's like a two headed turtle. It's not a good, accurate representation of the species. It's rare, and certainly interesting, but not really AS desirable as the wild type.

I'm sure they'll sell, but I don't see anyone spending thousands on them in the near future. They'll be just a little more than the average veiled after a while. I'm also sure the people that DO buy them will be inbreeding them like hell to get weird color (or lack there of) combinations.

 

[PEPPERQUILL1]

Veileds

Hi,
Well Chris whatever you want to call it.I guess your term of a defect is any thing that is not normal...which is fine with me.I am sorry that was my mistake the trait is reccesive not dominate.I have not seen any effect UV has had on them, but I have been told by a few breeders that UV doesent effect them, untill I hear or see otherwise I don't belive it does.And chris incase you havent read this whole thing most of the people were assuming what they thought not the facts.I was not being specific using the ball pythons as an example I was just asking if someone would put down an animal because it was different, it had nothing to do with UV.
Thanks for your intrest

 

[emersonc]

i still dont know why everyone is so pissed off about this different looking cham. I personally think that it is pretty cool and if money was not a problem for me i would probably buy it just to see how different it is. i think that people get too hung up on tradition and keeping things all the same, i say open up to these type of mutations and try something new

 

[jvillereptile]

on the translucent part of the chameleon is it scaleless. i was wondering because that would really make the chameleon vulnerable to injury

 

[PEPPERQUILL1]

Veiled chameleons

Hi,
They do have scales on the translucen parts.The skin has the same texture as any where else on the body.

 

[Chris Anderson]

Well Chris whatever you want to call it.I guess your term of a defect is any thing that is not normal...which is fine with me.

Not my term, its the scientifically accurate term, one with a specific definition to avoid any confussion about what is going on. Just because it doesn't sound nice doesn't mean that it isn't the truth, that it isn't what should be used to describe them or that it is being used negatively.

I have not seen any effect UV has had on them, but I have been told by a few breeders that UV doesent effect them, untill I hear or see otherwise I don't belive it does.

My comments were simply that this trait does add a degree of complication to the requirements of these animals. Many people have difficulty with normal specimens and as a result, caution needs to be taken with these specimens to avoid problems and actual studies on the different effects need to occur before you can say with certainty (as you have in your adds and in your posts) that it does not negatively effect them.

I personally find them to be interesting from a scientific standpoint. They originated from WC stock and I absolutely feel they should be maintained, however I feel it should be done carefully until they are understood more completely as the current assumptions you've made, wether based on accurate information from those who bred them or not, need more study to be stated as fact (which you're already doing prematurely). I truly hope they end up with people who will take careful care of them and aid in researching the impact of their defect.

Chris

 

[nightcrawler]

i know this is a very old thread but it was very interesting to me, and i was wondering if anyone has any differnet opinions about these chams now that they are around more?

has any studys been done with them?

 

[Justin Carl]

Here is something that Chris A sent me
Justin,

Based on our understanding of the genetics:

If you breed low trans to low trans, you will get about 50% low trans, 25% normal and 25% high trans.

If you breed low trans to normal, you will get about 50% low trans and 50% normal.

If you breed high trans to normal, you will get 100% low trans.

If you breed high trans to low trans, you will get about 50% low trans and 50% high trans.

If you breed high trans to high trans, you will get 100% high trans.

Mike at Flchams has these chameleons under 10.0 reptisuns.
Seems like UV radiation dosent effect them, and he said so himself.

I bought one last weekend too.

 

[Treetop Chameleons]

mike had thise not to long ago and everyone was all for them why is it turning into such an issue. correct me if im wrong but he did have the same thing and was charging $1000 for them and i didint see anyone giving him any probs. i am not trying to start anything so please dont come back and yell at me i just thoght he had the same thing.

 

[Tydis]

mike had thise not to long ago and everyone was all for them why is it turning into such an issue. correct me if im wrong but he did have the same thing and was charging $1000 for them and i didint see anyone giving him any probs. i am not trying to start anything so please dont come back and yell at me i just thoght he had the same thing.

this thread was from 2006 until someone bumped it recently.

 

[Treetop Chameleons]

OOOOOOOOOO hahaha next time i will look at the dates haha sorry.

 

[nightcrawler]

i was wondering if people did any studies with them, not start a fight. sorry if i offended anyone.
im glad that they arent effected by uv radiation tho.
there isnt really any problems with them anymore that i know of.

 

[leela]

i think its disqusting how people put money into the pockets of these idiots. they dont care about the animals welfare, just about money. Aseveyone has said this poor creature must have alot going wrong inside