Too tiny...
- Thread starter TimTina
- Start date
CleaTheChameleon
New Member
Hey! They are very small and the person that sold them at that age is ridiculous. They will only be able to be kept together until about 3 months. Then they will need a separate cage and all. What kind of UVB are you using? What is their cage now? Are you using any supplements? How do you provide water?
Here is a blog from one of the members on the forum. Read it. Its good advice
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-keepers-young-veiled-panther-chameleons.html
I also have to agree, The one with the eye closed is not good. Im sorry TimTina
Here is a blog from one of the members on the forum. Read it. Its good advice
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-keepers-young-veiled-panther-chameleons.html
I also have to agree, The one with the eye closed is not good. Im sorry TimTina
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Cainschams
New Member
Eh, They do look skinny and smaller than most of the 1 month old veileds I have seen. The two at least look alert. Sleeping is not a good sign. There might not be much you can do if they start sleeping all day.
Offer them lots of food throughout the day. Around 1/8th inch crix (depends what size they really are depending who you buy them from) and FFs. Do not dump in a ton of feeders at once as this will probably scare/confuse them. Just make sure they have access to feeders all day and let them eat what they will until they plump back up. Also make sure your temps arent too cool for them. After they plump back up you can cut down on the feeding so much. I usually let babies eat what they can in 5 or so minutes and toss in a few extra for later.
Actually separating them all into smaller tubs may help. It will at least take the stress of competing for food, getting annoyed etc from each other.
Offer them lots of food throughout the day. Around 1/8th inch crix (depends what size they really are depending who you buy them from) and FFs. Do not dump in a ton of feeders at once as this will probably scare/confuse them. Just make sure they have access to feeders all day and let them eat what they will until they plump back up. Also make sure your temps arent too cool for them. After they plump back up you can cut down on the feeding so much. I usually let babies eat what they can in 5 or so minutes and toss in a few extra for later.
Actually separating them all into smaller tubs may help. It will at least take the stress of competing for food, getting annoyed etc from each other.
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Kent67
Retired Moderator
Agreed. That last picture is scary. What's the seller's guarantee? If it includes your satisfaction I'd send them back. At least one of them looks very undernourished which is never good at such a tiny size.
ilovechameleons
New Member
Please keep us updated with the status of your little ones.
Syn
Avid Member
Unfortunately if they don't make it with the OP, the OP loses money. Sometimes you have to pick the lesser of two evils. Though they do need a chance, sometimes sickly chameleons will make it a day or two past the "health guarantee" date.
athena9995
New Member
I think I would feel obligated to report the breeder to some sort of animal authority. That's just terrible.
TimTina
Member
Seller guaranteed 1 hr. after they got here....we should have known...
Since we now have them we will do what we can to get them going and better. We normally save squirrels, dogs, cats, birds, etc.....chams are soooo different.
We have been misting and dripping on the leaves in cage and they are drinking off the drippings and the moisture on the vine in there so far.
THANK YOU ALL....we will keep you posted.
Since we now have them we will do what we can to get them going and better. We normally save squirrels, dogs, cats, birds, etc.....chams are soooo different.
We have been misting and dripping on the leaves in cage and they are drinking off the drippings and the moisture on the vine in there so far.
THANK YOU ALL....we will keep you posted.
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jannb
Chameleon Enthusiast
That is so sad. I think my babies were bigger than that when they hatched. Keep them warm as Cain said above and keep them hydrated. Nice warm mistings will also be good for the closed eyes. I would get large pin heads for them and fed them at least 3 or 4 times a day. The one with it's eyes closed I would put him in a warm steamy bathroom with the shower going......not in the shower, just in the steamy bathroom. Hopefully that will get his eyes open so he can see to eat.
Eszzie
New Member
These babies are way to small and skinny to be 4 weeks old. If they are 4 weeks they hardly had anything to eat. I would suggest to give them enough food to get them bigger and stronger an then keep the ones you have space for since they need to be seperated in 2 months. Shame on the one who bred these little ones
TimTina
Member
Form
Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? Veiled, unknowns, 1 day
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? n/a
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? small crickets, few-they wouldn't eat yesterday but kept 'eyeing' them...got smaller crickets today. Yes, dusted with Calcium w/D3
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? Flukers Calc. w/D3 also gutloaded crickets with fruit/veggie & flukers feed
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? Misting approx. 3 times (only had yesterday/today), dripper on a leaf, actually witnesssed 4 of the 5 drink so far.
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? brownish/dark orange with a little white on end, not slimey but hard to describe poop consistency..... Not tested for parasites yet.
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? Since we just got them yesterday and trying to retain the heat, we have them in aquarium with screen lid. Have cages ready as soon as they look a little healthier......maybe I should move them now but didn't want to cause anymore undue stress...
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? UVB 5.0 bulb approx. 14" long & heat bulb 40 watt, used offset ceramic heater on them last night and adjusted away from top until steady temp.
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Top of tank is approx. 83 degrees and bottom is 75ish.
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? we have a humidity meter and it is in the green range of approx. 70% Goes up and down a few depending on misting.
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? No live plants, have a vine and fake leaves. They LOVE the vine.
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? We have a bedroom which is now the "Cham room". it is for them only with a chair and crickets, food etc. in there. No high traffic except for me staring at them for hours live a mom with new babies watching them breathe....lol
Location - Where are you geographically located? Michigan
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about. They look malnourished and small. Cannot get them to eat yet. I just want to get them eating/drinking regularly and gaining some much needed calories so they can become healthy full grown veileds.........
______________________________________
I filled out the form...thank you Ellron..
Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? Veiled, unknowns, 1 day
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? n/a
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? small crickets, few-they wouldn't eat yesterday but kept 'eyeing' them...got smaller crickets today. Yes, dusted with Calcium w/D3
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? Flukers Calc. w/D3 also gutloaded crickets with fruit/veggie & flukers feed
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? Misting approx. 3 times (only had yesterday/today), dripper on a leaf, actually witnesssed 4 of the 5 drink so far.
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? brownish/dark orange with a little white on end, not slimey but hard to describe poop consistency..... Not tested for parasites yet.
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? Since we just got them yesterday and trying to retain the heat, we have them in aquarium with screen lid. Have cages ready as soon as they look a little healthier......maybe I should move them now but didn't want to cause anymore undue stress...
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? UVB 5.0 bulb approx. 14" long & heat bulb 40 watt, used offset ceramic heater on them last night and adjusted away from top until steady temp.
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Top of tank is approx. 83 degrees and bottom is 75ish.
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? we have a humidity meter and it is in the green range of approx. 70% Goes up and down a few depending on misting.
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? No live plants, have a vine and fake leaves. They LOVE the vine.
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? We have a bedroom which is now the "Cham room". it is for them only with a chair and crickets, food etc. in there. No high traffic except for me staring at them for hours live a mom with new babies watching them breathe....lol
Location - Where are you geographically located? Michigan
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about. They look malnourished and small. Cannot get them to eat yet. I just want to get them eating/drinking regularly and gaining some much needed calories so they can become healthy full grown veileds.........
______________________________________
I filled out the form...thank you Ellron..
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morpheon
New Member
Here's a few things.
First, i wouldn't move them. They look like having enough space for now, and the stress of moving them from the seller to your house is enough to kill them (or almost). So moving them to a third place is definately not a good idea in my mind. You just have to make sure that no moisture builds in your fish tank. Maybe in a week or two when they'll be better, but not now. Others may disagree with me, i don't know!
I wonder if the calcium with D3 is good idea on the short time. Usually, they shouldn't have D3 more than 2 or 3 times a month, but since your little chameleons are so malnourished, i am wondering if a full week or two wouldn't be a good (or bad) idea. Others may comment.
The room it's in is great. At what height is your fish tank??
What are the temperatures at night??
Keep making them drink every few hours! It's a good sign if they are drinking!! I have faith that a few of them should survive!
EDIT: About fecals: your description shows dehydratation, but it's not fatal in my opinion since there is some small part of white on it. Just make them drink a few times a day and they should recover on that part! About parasites, it's not time to test them yet. Anyway, even if there were parasited, no vet could do something to kill the parasites without killing the chameleon!!
First, i wouldn't move them. They look like having enough space for now, and the stress of moving them from the seller to your house is enough to kill them (or almost). So moving them to a third place is definately not a good idea in my mind. You just have to make sure that no moisture builds in your fish tank. Maybe in a week or two when they'll be better, but not now. Others may disagree with me, i don't know!
I wonder if the calcium with D3 is good idea on the short time. Usually, they shouldn't have D3 more than 2 or 3 times a month, but since your little chameleons are so malnourished, i am wondering if a full week or two wouldn't be a good (or bad) idea. Others may comment.
The room it's in is great. At what height is your fish tank??
What are the temperatures at night??
Keep making them drink every few hours! It's a good sign if they are drinking!!
I have faith that a few of them should survive! EDIT: About fecals: your description shows dehydratation, but it's not fatal in my opinion since there is some small part of white on it. Just make them drink a few times a day and they should recover on that part! About parasites, it's not time to test them yet. Anyway, even if there were parasited, no vet could do something to kill the parasites without killing the chameleon!!
jastate09
Avid Member
How are you measuring the temps? Glass can over heat quick with a 40 watt bulb. How high up off the tank do you have the lights? Make sure they are at least 10 inches above the closest vine they can get on under the light. Buy some calcium without d3 to use daily and only use the d3 twice a month. You need pinheads and fruit flies for these tiny ones. If the feeders are too big they will not eat them, better too small than too big. Also if they get too hot they will not eat. How many have their eyes closed today? Are both eyes closed?
