too much d3

[Lovereps]

Excessive Vitamin A is one well documented cause of gular edema.
Some people here have reported that it happens whenever they give their feeders carrots. They did not say whether they've been using carrots exclusively or have been oversupplementing, so I can't elaborate.
You can do a search for vitamin a , carrots and gular edema on the forums and I'm sure you'll find plenty of discussions to read.
Since I'm too lazy to buy the ingredients for a good gutload and blend it for myself, I buy "Cricket Crack" from fellow forum member SSimsswiSS, who makes both a regular and a "montane" blend for montane chams.
Once you feed some to your crickets, the name will make perfect sense to you.

Here's a link to Sandrachameleon's excellent blog on feeders and nutrition:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition-gutloading.html

 

[sandrachameleon]

If you are able, Visit the vet that jannb suggested - it will save you a lot of worry and guessing.

I'd be more inclined to blame the D3 and baytril for the edema, rather than vitamin A. Carrots have beta carotene, not actually vitamin A. Chances are this is not causing the edema (though I do recal brad once saying he thought beta carotene may have temporarily contributed to gular edema in gravid females). I wouldnt worry about using carrots as part of your gutload. of course, it shouldnt be your only gutload item. try also using things like paypaya, dandelion, spriulina, dried bull kelp, mustard greens, romaine lettuce, squash. Continue to use oranges. Unfortunately, most beans have the wrong ratio (though using them occassionally is still fine). Spinnach and potatoes are NOT good options.

what brand of vitamin supplement do you use?

It will take time for the effects of the excessive D3, assuming thats the problem, to dissipate. some damange may be permanent. ensure he can get out of the sunlight. ensure lots of water available (a constant dripper would be good). Dont use the D3 supplement. Use a plain calcium supplement instead.

I've listed the nutrients in various different fruits and veggies here:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/nutritional-information/

 

[Joe A]

i was giving him rep-cal herptivite with beta carotene 1 or 2 times a week and rep-cal phos free calcium with d3 almost every day, i know now this was wrong.,,, when he didnt eat for almost a week because of his skin infection the vet gave me some emraid omnivore essential diet to give him so i did that for a few days until he started eating again and thats when his tong started having troubles extending and after a few days he stopped extending it, he locks onto a cricket with his eyes leans in opens his mouth and his tong only goes about as far as an inch maybe, but he is def trying to use it, its like its stuck,it still looks normal, he still uses it to lick the branches as he walks around his cage and to drink and what not. today is the 3rd day he has had the gular edema, could the omnivore feed be the catalyst that sent all these probs into motion? could it have overloaded his system with too many vitamins and other things especially if he was already over supplemented to begin with?

I will keep him in the shade outside and yes i usually have his dripper on most of the day plus i hand water him with a squirt bottle in the mornings and evenings so i think hes staying hydrated

i dont think i can make a trip to Orlando though i really wish i had the time and money to. I need someone more local, unfortunately money is an issue.

if money wasnt kinda tight i prob would have had blood tests done at the vet ive been using, but on that note im not sure the vet would know the correct course of action to take after the test results came back

thats why ive been utilizing this forum to get the best advise i can at this time. I really appreciate all the info and advise ive been getting. THANK YOU EVERYONE SO MUCH

 

[Joe A]

here are pics of his poop this morning, if anyone would like to comment on it. it has had a little orange in it lately. thought it might be from the carrots in the gut loads but dont really know,

 

[jannb]

i dont think i can make a trip to Orlando though i really wish i had the time and money to. I need someone more local, unfortunately money is an issue.


Dr. Alfonso is very reasonable due to his love for the chameleon. You are wasting your time and your money and risking your chams life by going to a vet without allot of chameleon experience. My daughter lived in Tampa for years and made the drive to Dr. A's many times and St. Pete wouldn't be much further.

 

[Lovereps]

I believe Joe intends to take him to a good cham vet, but wants one nearby

Julirs is an experienced cham owner who may very likely know of at least one good vet for chams. I believe that she lives near your area.
If she doesn't respond to the post, then I would send her a PM or email explaining that your cham is having health problems and ask her if she would recommend a good vet.
There are also other cham owners in your area and, if you read the thread I linked in the PM to you, you will find them.
The orange in the poop is not from the carrots.
Orange urates are a sign of kidney problems or dehydration.
I don't believe that anyone here could realistically tell you whether or not temporarily depriving him of sunlight would be helpful or harmful.
A vet who does bloodwork to determine the precise problem or problems, as well as if there is any permanent organ damage and to what extent, may be able to prescribe a treatment that saves your cham.
He/she would be able to advise you when to resume supplementing with calcium and with a multivitamin and may have read enough studies to know whether or not he should spend time indoors for a bit or not..

 

[kinyonga]

Vitamin A...from beta carotene (prOformed) sources can not build up in the system and cause problems because the body converts it as it is needed....its not formed ahead of time.

Vitamin A from prEformed sources (animals, acetate, retinol, retinyl, etc.) is ready to go...its formed already...and it can build up in the system.

D3 and vitamin A also have a relationship...they are somewhat antagonistic to each other. Excess prEformed vitamin A may prevent the D3 from doing its job and lead to MBD (which not only affects the bones, but the muscles and organs in the chameleon's system).

Here are some articles that might help....
http://web.archive.org/web/20060502...rnals.com/vet/index.php?show=5.Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20060421.../index.php?show=6.Vitamin.D3.and.Calcium.html
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html

I can't tell you what is causing the edema....but maybe if all the nutrients are back in line and there has been no organ damage it will go away...or you could ask the vet.

 

[laurie]

Hey I am coming in at the end of this thread but please make the drive to see Dr. Alfonso!!! He will save you money and most likely save your chameleon's life. I had one of my friends ship his cham down from NY (warpdrive on the forum). We were afraid he was going to lose her. Now on Tues they are shipping him a healthy cham and all for less that $200. If you want that chameleon to live please at least give Dr. Alfonso a call. He advises the vet I have to use here in Montana, so I don't lose my beloved chameleons. It seems to me you are out of options.

Please let me know how your beautiful boy is doing.

 

[Joe A]

Yes he def needs medical help from an exp vet. I looked at the link for Dr. Alfonso, Maybe he knows a good vet in my area he could advise, i didnt see any email adress for him? does anyone have one? Its the weekend and i dont want to call the emergency line if im not even in the area.

 

[warpdrive]

Take your guy to Dr. Ivan Alfonso in Orlando, FL. He is one of the best if not the best chameleon vet in the US. It may be a drive but he is well worth it. I drive over two hours to see him all the time. People that are to far away to drive ship their sick chams to him. He's close by Universal Studios. His website below.
www.kirkmanareavet.com

As jannb has said, my female quad is still in Florida. Shipped overnight so Dr A can see her.
My vet could have examined her just fine. But if surgery was needed, then she would at least have a chance with Dr A.
Thankfully, no surgery was needed.

A two hour drive would be welcome compared to overnighting both ways and looking at an empty cage.
But hey, I only live in NYC. You know, the "new Rome". You would think there would be at least a good reptile vet.

I highly recommend Dr A.

Harry

 

[Joe A]

I looked at his website and Dr A sounds great but thats over a 2 hr drive plus i learned that senior member Julirs is located near me and referred me to the vet she uses, Dr Tracy Anderson, I called and the earliest appointment i could get was 9am Wednesday her office is just about a half hr away from me, Im hopeful that Dr Anderson will be able to help, i dont want to use an out of town vet, thats a real pain, unless thats my only option then i will have to get a hold of Dr Alfonso, Maybe Dr Anderson could even consult with him if needed.

Again thanks everyone for your help i really appreciate it

 

[dropanuke]

some help

my female cham keeps reaching for the lights but mesh is stoppingher, what does this mean??

 

[bridgofaith]

I looked at his website and Dr A sounds great but thats over a 2 hr drive

Again thanks everyone for your help i really appreciate it

I make a 3 hour drive to get my chams to Dr. Alfonso, its well worth it! He is extremely knowledgeable and very friendly. You won't be disappointed.

 

[Julirs]

Good deal. Dr. Anderson is plenty knowledgeable and very reasonable. Let us know how it goes. Please tell her I recommened her.

 

[kinyonga]

dropanuke...if you start your own thread you might get an answer. We need more information before we can answer anyhow.

 

[AESara]

my female cham keeps reaching for the lights but mesh is stoppingher, what does this mean??

As kinyonga said, you're more likely to get an answer if you make your own thread. Nobody is trying to be rude, they just don't notice. In case you check here first, my guess would be she needs more heat or UVB (assuming that they know how much UVB they require).

As far as the actual topic of the thread, it's great you have some options and are getting your cham to the vet.

 

[Joe A]

I just remembered i have a med called metacam,its a pain killer /anti-inflammatory left over from a past vet visit, its mixed proper still good and i know what dosage to give, does anyone think its a good or bad idea to give him some to try and make him at least comfortable until he can see the vet 9am Wednesday,

 

[Julirs]

I just remembered i have a med called metacam,its a pain killer /anti-inflammatory left over from a past vet visit, its mixed proper still good and i know what dosage to give, does anyone think its a good or bad idea to give him some to try and make him at least comfortable until he can see the vet 9am Wednesday,

I wouldn't.

 

[Joe A]

Your probably right...........I just feel helpless,i hate seeing him like this with his edema and everything, Should i give him a nice long warm shower?, i think i read thats good for easing gular edema

PS: Julirs did you get the pm i sent you, i couldnt tell if it was sent sucessfully

 

[Texas Panther Man]

Whatever happened to this cham was Dr. Anderson able to help you?