too much d3
- Thread starter Joe A
- Start date
JaxyGirl
Avid Member
Hi there, I'm unfamiliar with your previous posts..but if you have posted a "how to ask for help" question and answers form previously you might want to attach it here also so that other members can see what the problem was to begin with and then we can help you the best way possible
Lovereps
Avid Member
According to Kenneth Lopez, DVM (a vet with cham experience)
It would seem logical to think that the tongue could be affected.
Here's Dr lopez's article:
http://web.archive.org/web/20060421082042/www.chameleonjournals.com/vet/index.php?show=6.Vitamin.D3.and.Calcium.html
It would seem logical to think that the tongue could be affected.
Here's Dr lopez's article:
http://web.archive.org/web/20060421082042/www.chameleonjournals.com/vet/index.php?show=6.Vitamin.D3.and.Calcium.html
thanx that was a good article. If his tong has become a little calcified and the muscles in it week could this be permanent or will it correct its self after his body works out the d3/calcium overload? Also he is still eating well just having trouble cornering his prey because his tong isnt extending. He is still very active but now i noticed he has a build up of fluid that is causing him to have a bulge on his chest . The bulge is very soft and if his body is upright it it seems to disperse under his skin but if he is angled down or level it seems to start filling up with fluid. it feels like its just fluid under his skin and there is nothing stiff about it, it isnt effecting his breathing at all so its not in his lungs, what in the world could this be , These last few weeks have been a nightmare, his skin infection has basically dried up and healed and he shed yesterday, but now i have these other problems....... aaaah this is driving me crazy i will attach some pics of him
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Yes, too much D3 can cause muscle issues, among other things.
How much vitamin A has he been getting?
Do a search on edema (swelling) - improper supplementing can cause this too ...sometimes it can be due to organ disfunction/failure. If the over supplementation has damaged the kidneys, the edema could be a symptom.
Increase water and cut out the D3.
You may find the info in this blog entry useful:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/65-supplements.html
How much vitamin A has he been getting?
Do a search on edema (swelling) - improper supplementing can cause this too ...sometimes it can be due to organ disfunction/failure. If the over supplementation has damaged the kidneys, the edema could be a symptom.
Increase water and cut out the D3.
You may find the info in this blog entry useful:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/65-supplements.html
I was giving him rep-cal calcium with d3 almost everyday and rep-cal herptivite with beta carotene once or twice a week. He was 5mths old when i got him and have had him for about 5mths now. He was doing great until this last month. He got a skin infection and was treated with baytril and chlorhexiderm washes witch seems to have worked. HE shed and i stopped the meds yesterday. He was on them for about 2 1/2 weeks. he lost his appetite when the infection started, when he started eating again i noticed the tong prob. thought he just might have been weak but its been going on for too long to be that plus he is active, still gaining wieght and has been eating and drinking well despite the tong not extending. Now this edema is starting. His last checkup the vet said his skin looked better and didnt know what to say about his tong problem, this was a few days ago. The vet i used was good but not very experienced with chams so im not too confident about bringing him back there without doing my own research first. (PS:at this time i cant find the cord to load pics to my computer, sorry)
found my cord so here are the pics of him i took this morning he still had some skin left to shed off his face,he hates the camera and puffs up when he sees it so it was kinda hard to get a good angle without him puffing up . if he is angled downwards the fluid will fill up around his neck and shoulders, its very soft and disperses when u touch it and doesnt seem to be painful for him, but this along with his tong not extending is really freaking me out!!!!!! what can i do? please help.
Lovereps
Avid Member
Edema is defined as an accumulation of fluid in soft tissues, so your description makes perfect sense.
Edema is not an illness, it's a symptom.
Your cham appears to have gular edema.
I have read of chams with gular edema having tongue problems at the same time.
Only a blood test by a competent vet with plenty of cham experience can determine the exact cause of the edema.
Here's another vet's article and you'll have to scroll down through the article to the causes of edema:
http://www.seavs.com/case_studies/lizards/index.asp
This thread has an especially good response (#10) by veterinarian Dr Matthew Wheelock
https://www.chameleonforums.com/uri-treated-now-gular-edema-6366/
If you let us know where you're located, then maybe someone can recommend a good vet.
As an alternative, take a look at these threads:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/area-area-country-vet-list-32880/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/veterinarian-resources-67/
Edema is not an illness, it's a symptom.
Your cham appears to have gular edema.
I have read of chams with gular edema having tongue problems at the same time.
Only a blood test by a competent vet with plenty of cham experience can determine the exact cause of the edema.
Here's another vet's article and you'll have to scroll down through the article to the causes of edema:
http://www.seavs.com/case_studies/lizards/index.asp
This thread has an especially good response (#10) by veterinarian Dr Matthew Wheelock
https://www.chameleonforums.com/uri-treated-now-gular-edema-6366/
If you let us know where you're located, then maybe someone can recommend a good vet.
As an alternative, take a look at these threads:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/area-area-country-vet-list-32880/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/veterinarian-resources-67/
im located in st. petersburg fl, i really would like to try a new vet so please if anyone knows any exp cham vet in the area let me know, ive been looking online for someone with a lot of cham exp but i am having trouble finding one without just calling everywhere and asking if they have cham exp. I dont have the money to keep taking him to a vet that doesnt know chams and wants me to spend hundreds of dollars on tests and has even given me harmful advise my vet said his sups were good but i have read and found that i have been giving too much d3 and herptivite also after the checkup on his skin infection i was told it looked healed but to keep giving him bayrtil everyday for a few more weeks to be safe, that can cause kidney problems HE WAS ALREADY ON IT FOR 2 WEEKS the bottle said 10-14 days so i stopped giving him the baytril and when i asked about his tong not extending the vet had no idea what to say other than maybe hes just being lazy ,well obviously its harder for him to chase food down all over the cage than just nailing them with his tong , and now he has this gular edema, so actually i think my vet is half to blame for his condition! i need someone that has dealt with something similar to this, im really worried , i love my cham! i just want him to get better
i need someone that has dealt with something similar to this, im really worried , i love my cham! i just want him to get better
Lovereps
Avid Member
You might have some luck by perusing the last 2 links I posted and, if someone in or not too far from St Petersburg replies--all the better.
I think that the most important think right now is to make sure your cham remains well hydrated.
Until you can get him to a good vet, in case it's just too many things at one time overtaxing his kidneys and/or liver, then giving him plenty of water should help him to flush-out whatever he needs to get rid of.
I think that the most important think right now is to make sure your cham remains well hydrated.
Until you can get him to a good vet, in case it's just too many things at one time overtaxing his kidneys and/or liver, then giving him plenty of water should help him to flush-out whatever he needs to get rid of.
Yea this thing is really starting to snowball down hill and out of control, at least he is still strong, active,eating and drinking. thanx for all the links lovereps i got some good info from them, and thanx to everyone else, i will pursue an experienced vet first thing tomorrow, hopefully it is something treatable , i feel so bad if this is my fault i had a check up with the vet when i first got him and was told that the sups i was giving him were correct and i followed the vets instructions for all health issues except continuing baytril for more than 2 weeks because i felt that was dangerous and just asking for kidney problems, i really hope he pulls through this...............aaaaaaaaaaahh
i got some good info from them, and thanx to everyone else, i will pursue an experienced vet first thing tomorrow, hopefully it is something treatable , i feel so bad if this is my fault i had a check up with the vet when i first got him and was told that the sups i was giving him were correct and i followed the vets instructions for all health issues except continuing baytril for more than 2 weeks because i felt that was dangerous and just asking for kidney problems, i really hope he pulls through this...............aaaaaaaaaaahh
Lovereps
Avid Member
I'm glad to have helped in some way
Plenty of vets prescribe Baytril, but it seems that some are unaware of the need to really up the hydration of your cham during treatment.
The fact that he is active and eating sounds good.
Don't beat yourself up over what is already done.
If you had known differently, you certainly would have done things differently.
I suspect that just about everyone here has done something "wrong" for their cham at one time or another.
When you learn what's no good, you change what you're doing or not doing.
The fact that you're taking him to a vet tells how much you care for your cham!
Did anyone tell you to not give him a multivitamin 2x a week?
2x a month is typically what's recommended.
Too much vitamin A is one of the more common causes of gular edema.
In any case, I wish the best for you and your cham. Again, eating and drinking are good signs.
Plenty of vets prescribe Baytril, but it seems that some are unaware of the need to really up the hydration of your cham during treatment.
The fact that he is active and eating sounds good.
Don't beat yourself up over what is already done.
If you had known differently, you certainly would have done things differently.
I suspect that just about everyone here has done something "wrong" for their cham at one time or another.
When you learn what's no good, you change what you're doing or not doing.
The fact that you're taking him to a vet tells how much you care for your cham!
Did anyone tell you to not give him a multivitamin 2x a week?
2x a month is typically what's recommended.
Too much vitamin A is one of the more common causes of gular edema.
In any case, I wish the best for you and your cham. Again, eating and drinking are good signs.
jannb
Chameleon Enthusiast
im located in st. petersburg fl, i really would like to try a new vet so please if anyone knows any exp cham vet in the area let me know, ive been looking online for someone with a lot of cham exp but i am having trouble finding one without just calling everywhere and asking if they have cham exp. I dont have the money to keep taking him to a vet that doesnt know chams and wants me to spend hundreds of dollars on tests and has even given me harmful advise my vet said his sups were good but i have read and found that i have been giving too much d3 and herptivite also after the checkup on his skin infection i was told it looked healed but to keep giving him bayrtil everyday for a few more weeks to be safe, that can cause kidney problems HE WAS ALREADY ON IT FOR 2 WEEKS the bottle said 10-14 days so i stopped giving him the baytril and when i asked about his tong not extending the vet had no idea what to say other than maybe hes just being lazy ,well obviously its harder for him to chase food down all over the cage than just nailing them with his tong , and now he has this gular edema, so actually i think my vet is half to blame for his condition!
Take your guy to Dr. Ivan Alfonso in Orlando, FL. He is one of the best if not the best chameleon vet in the US. It may be a drive but he is well worth it. I drive over two hours to see him all the time. People that are to far away to drive ship their sick chams to him. He's close by Universal Studios. His website below.
www.kirkmanareavet.com
Champeleons
New Member
Since this hasnt been mentioned, i am probably wrong, but would he not have a better chance of absorbing the D3 if he didnt get sunlight? I thought i had read on here b4 that if they are outside, D3 isnt needed, so just a suggestion
Sunlight produces more UVB than the lights do...so the chameleon can produce enough D3 when it gets sunlight. When its only under UVB lights all day every day its questionable as to whether they get enough...so by giving them some (but not enough that its an overdose) and allowing them to produce any more through the exposure to the UVB light its hoped that they will get enough.
Champeleons
New Member
ty for the sunlight explanation, so do you think it would help his cham get rid of the D3 if he avoided sunlight until he gets better?
i was giving my feeders mostly carrots the last week or so , i just read some things that said a lot of carrots could cause a vit A build up,is this true? could this be the reason for his gular edema? i stopped giving him sups a few days ago but the edema started after i cut out the sups, I told my vet what sups i was using and how often, i was told that "sounds good", obviously its wasnt good, now i know he should get phos free calcium with no D3 often and only give the heptivite twice a month, this maybe a ? for the dietary section but what veggies should i gut load to get the proper cal to phos ratio. Lately ive been giving a frozen veggie mix of carrots,corn,peas, green beans, lima beans with some orange wedges, i thought it seemed like a healthy gutload but maybe im wrong, at first i was gut loading with a potato slice some baby spinach leaves and orange wedges but it seemed easier just to grab a hand full of mixed veggies out of the freezer, should i switch back to potatoes, spinach and oranges? does anyone know how long the gular edema should last if its just a vit A and D3 overload? are there any meds usually given or do u just kinda wait for it to go down on its own?, could some warm showers help?
hes been outside most of the time lately should i keep him inside, could that help his body flush out the D3, I thought giving him all the natural sun possible would be the best thing for him to overcome an illness, am i wrong?, could the absence of natural light help him absorb the D3 build up?
no swelling anywhere but around his chest and neck like in the pics i posted, hes eating and pooping no prob so i dont think he has any intestinal problems
,is this true? could this be the reason for his gular edema? i stopped giving him sups a few days ago but the edema started after i cut out the sups, I told my vet what sups i was using and how often, i was told that "sounds good", obviously its wasnt good, now i know he should get phos free calcium with no D3 often and only give the heptivite twice a month, this maybe a ? for the dietary section but what veggies should i gut load to get the proper cal to phos ratio. Lately ive been giving a frozen veggie mix of carrots,corn,peas, green beans, lima beans with some orange wedges, i thought it seemed like a healthy gutload but maybe im wrong, at first i was gut loading with a potato slice some baby spinach leaves and orange wedges but it seemed easier just to grab a hand full of mixed veggies out of the freezer, should i switch back to potatoes, spinach and oranges? does anyone know how long the gular edema should last if its just a vit A and D3 overload? are there any meds usually given or do u just kinda wait for it to go down on its own?, could some warm showers help?hes been outside most of the time lately should i keep him inside, could that help his body flush out the D3, I thought giving him all the natural sun possible would be the best thing for him to overcome an illness, am i wrong?, could the absence of natural light help him absorb the D3 build up?
no swelling anywhere but around his chest and neck like in the pics i posted, hes eating and pooping no prob so i dont think he has any intestinal problems
