Tongue Issues? Or something else

[odduc748]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Ambanja Panther female
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? Once a week
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? 5-6 crickets, 2-3 dubia roaches, 2-3 superworms What is the schedule? once a day How are you gut-loading your feeders? Flukers gutload, carrots, kale, sweet potato, sweet red pepper
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? dusting all insects with Rep-Cal plain calcium, every day. dusting with Zoo-Med Repticalcium with D3 and Exo Terra Multivitamin on the 1st and 15th of the month.
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? misting with pump mister 2-3 times per day. How often and how long to you mist? Misting with Mistking on a schedule of 5 daily mistings about 2.5hrs apart and 60-90 second durations(single nozzle)Do you see your chameleon drinking? Yes
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings.
bright white urates and 1-3 brownish grey "dooties" all in a clear sac Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? No
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? 24x24x48 LLLReptile Screen
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? Zoo Med T5 HO Strip light with 5.0 UVB and a dome with a generic 60w bulb-12hrs on a timer
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? 70 at the bottom to 88 at the top Lowest overnight temp? 65 How do you measure these temps? Heat gun and thermometer in the cage
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? 40-80 How are you creating and maintaining these levels? misting system and fogger What do you use to measure humidity? digital hygrometer
Plants - Are you using live plants? yes If so, what kind? money tree and umbrella tree
Placement - Where is your cage located? spare bedroom Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? no, low traffic At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? peak height about 6'
Location - Where are you geographically located? Cold New Hampshire

OK. So it seems my 4.5 month old female is having trouble with her tongue. I may have exacerbated the problem because I spoil her by hand feeding. But, when I hold her prey directly in front of her, she hesitates so long to shoot her tongue that I end up just putting the food in her mouth. If I move her food away from her and force her to shoot her tongue, she will always miss. Again, I put the food directly in her mouth. However, if I come in to the room to see her hunting, she misses her target 9 out of 10 times. And, she hesitates or tries to get right on top of the cricket to simply gobble it up. With that, I don't think there's anything wrong with her eyes.

She is otherwise very healthy and, perhaps, a bit on the chunky side.

I don't think anything in the diet is lacking.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!
John

 

[dlegare]

What are you using for supplements? Is he/she having any noticeable eye problems?

 

[odduc748]

What are you using for supplements? Is he/she having any noticeable eye problems?

ExoTerra Multivitamin dusted on food prey the 1st and 15th of each month.
No noticeable eye problems. Turrets are full and eyes look good, as far as I can tell.

 

[odduc748]

Suggestions?

Has anyone else ever had this situation with any of their chams?

It's especially sad because my new male just arrived, today, and he snatched up three crickets within an hour after being put in his new home. He didn't hesitate and his aim was spot-on. And, he's less than half her size, right now.

 

[carol5208]

I have seen it on here more times than I can count. It is hard to say if it is her actual tongue or a sight issue. She may be hesitating because she cannot lock her vision onto the prey. When my one chameleon had a slight eye problem, I noticed his aim was off(high or low) but was corrected when the eye problem was resolved. I know you said the eyes look good, but think of our eyes looking fine but not being able to see and needing glasses. I often wonder why people on here follow protocol for supplementsand gutload and still have eye issues. Maybe it is just the individual chameleon itself. Just like people or any other animals, why one gets sick and the other doesn't when fed same diet, environment, etc. When you see her hunting, is she just missing, or her tongue is not extending out also?? If it is extending, then I would say it is her eyes.

 

[Thompson]

I've had this problem occur in the chams that became accustomed to being hand fed all the time. It seems they just get lazy. But after switching them back to free ranging food ( which is also more natural for the Cham anyway) their tongue extended fully and accuracy returned to normal.

But sometimes this can be due to many ailments. A common one could be an injury on the tongue that may have came from hand feeding actually. Another problem could be caused by improper use of supplements but your schedule seems to be spot on. You could try and stop hand feeding her altogether and bring her outside for some good sunshine and natural d3.

 

[carol5208]

I've had this problem occur in the chams that became accustomed to being hand fed all the time. It seems they just get lazy. But after switching them back to free ranging food ( which is also more natural for the Cham anyway) their tongue extended fully and accuracy returned to normal.

But sometimes this can be due to many ailments. A common one could be an injury on the tongue that may have came from hand feeding actually. Another problem could be caused by improper use of supplements but your schedule seems to be spot on. You could try and stop hand feeding her altogether and bring her outside for some good sunshine and natural d3.

Hi there! I was wondering, if you ever have had a tongue injury that was permanent?. I am not dealing with that, but just wondering if that happens where they just never use their tongue again. Good to see you on the forum!

 

[odduc748]

You could try and stop hand feeding her altogether and bring her outside for some good sunshine and natural d3.

HAHAHAHAAA!!! I'd love to bring her outside. But, it's still too cold for that. I should be able to bring her (and the new boy, Samson Jr.) in about a month or so when the temps get in to the 70s.

For now, I'll just stop hand feeding and watch her closely.

 

[carol5208]

How long have you had her and been hand feeding?

 

[odduc748]

I have seen it on here more times than I can count. It is hard to say if it is her actual tongue or a sight issue. She may be hesitating because she cannot lock her vision onto the prey. When my one chameleon had a slight eye problem, I noticed his aim was off(high or low) but was corrected when the eye problem was resolved. I know you said the eyes look good, but think of our eyes looking fine but not being able to see and needing glasses. I often wonder why people on here follow protocol for supplementsand gutload and still have eye issues. Maybe it is just the individual chameleon itself. Just like people or any other animals, why one gets sick and the other doesn't when fed same diet, environment, etc. When you see her hunting, is she just missing, or her tongue is not extending out also?? If it is extending, then I would say it is her eyes.

Her tongue usually shoots high, even when I hold the food only about 2 inches away. I also notice it is high when she tries to shoot a cricket free ranging. Even then, she seems to want to get really close to her prey. But, she still hesitates so much as if she has no confidence.

So, it may be a sight issue. If so, what can I do to help her?

 

[odduc748]

How long have you had her and been hand feeding?

I've had her for about 2 months. I have been hand feeding her, everyday, for about a month. I started doing this because I would watch her missing her prey more often than she would actually catch the cricket or roach.

 

[Thompson]

If you began hand feeding because you noticed her missing her prey than this could mean there is something wrong with her sight. A couple misses here and there aren't nothing to worry about but if it happens frequently there's something that's causing the problem.

 

[carol5208]

From what I have seen people do on here is give extra VitA for eye issues. You can buy it I think in gel caps and then squirt a small amount on a feeder. She is young and small so you would have to be careful not to give too much. If you search VitA on here or VitA Deficiency you should find many threads on the subject. It sure seems like a common problem in the chameleon world, but often times it causes them to start closing their eyes. That is usually the diagnosis when that happens.

 

[odduc748]

Thank you, Thompson and Carol.

I will check the Vit A threads and see what is recommended.

I'll post the progress.

As I mentioned in the initial post, she is a bit chunky. So, I suppose I would do well to let her, at least try, to successfully hunt her food. I say this because, on some weird level, I think she may, in fact, be acting like a spoiled child. We shall see.

Thanks!

 

[carol5208]

Hope it turns out to be just that! Keep us updated and good luck to you both.

 

[odduc748]

Day 1 of Vitamin A with retinal palmitate.

 

[odduc748]

I completed the VitA treatment as per Jim's method.

After 5 days of VitA swabbed onto one of her prey items, I did notice a bit of increased response. Also, I noticed she is now quicker to project the tongue without so much hesitation. However, her aim is still off. But, I have seen her catch a couple free range crickets and some dubias out of her new feeder cup.

I think she will only get better and I will now treat her food with VitA, twice per month as per Jim's treatment plan for continued improvement and good health.