time to breed

[pssh]

Hey now. I don't like bad words, therefore, I use other words. Adults like that I don't cuss and dirty my mouth with foul language! That post had a tone because I can't stand generalizations. Some stores here don't even let teens go in without adults and make them empty their pockets before they leave! I was sitting with my boyfriend at a park and two police officers went through my bags because "I hid something in it when they walked over."

Regardless of if the drug is natural or man made, I don't do them. Plus mushrooms make me throw up! I can't stand them. They taste like poop and they are squishy like gross stuff. Last time I stepped on one I slipped and fell because it was slimy!

 

[Ace]

Hey now. I don't like bad words, therefore, I use other words. Adults like that I don't cuss and dirty my mouth with foul language! That post had a tone because I can't stand generalizations. Some stores here don't even let teens go in without adults and make them empty their pockets before they leave! I was sitting with my boyfriend at a park and two police officers went through my bags because "I hid something in it when they walked over."

Regardless of if the drug is natural or man made, I don't do them. Plus mushrooms make me throw up! I can't stand them. They taste like poop and they are squishy like gross stuff. Last time I stepped on one I slipped and fell because it was slimy!

that sux Kara, i know how it is too....and for the drugs....eh its all natural its all good jk lol...

and finally i can assume one of your post did infact had a sort of tone YES!!!

ah well sorry for derailing....

 

[warpdrive]

I'm with Harry on this one, like I said before, if you're doing this for the experience then really enjoy and experience it. What's the point of breeding for the experience if you only want to see the babies and interact for an hour or less a day? You might as well just look at photos of hatchlings and call it a day.

If I bred I'd be like Jann, I would enjoy them right up until they had to be sent to their new homes. She did such a fantastic job raising her little veileds, and put so much time into really interacting with them that now nearly all ~30 babies are beautifully adjusted to living with people and were strong and healthy when they left her house. Whether or not you believe in handling chameleons is a different issue altogether, but who can say that Jann or Stefan didn't get all the juice they could out of the experience?

Finally, someone who is clearly starting to make sense at the end of this thread.

I mean everyone, yes everyone has made assumptions in this thread. Some did it based on the replys, some didn't. But it's time we face facts. It's gona take a crapload of crickets to produce the amount of pinheads this kid needs and I would love to see such a production from a 13 year old.
Heck, he can even build cages for free from the scraps left in his neighbors garbage. Can someone please send me a kid like this. I could use a helper like that.

And let's face it, when my female Laurie desided to become receptive for the first time in her life she didn't ask me if the timing was going to be ok. She couldn't care less if I worked or went to school or if I was busy. Of course if not mated, I would now have no chance of a possibility of rearing babies from her as she passed away. And I'll bet the eggs or the babies in them don't give too poopies as to when I want them to hatch. Nor do they care if I can afford to care for their needs. All of the above and more is my job and my responsibility. And Kara is right, the kid clearly has tons of money as to why they will breed their own feeders to save some money and so they can stay rich. Yet I would still love for Jared to tell me how many crickets I will have in my house at any given moment if I have to feed 19 hungry panther babies if I'm going to breed my feeders. He says my calculations are off, but I at least did the math based on my success rate with breeding crickets...and to me, crickets are easy. This kid has so much money he gets all his cages built for free. Heck, he even has the knowledge as he says needed to breed, just wants to know if he has the time to do so. Yet I'm the one making assumptions.

Thank you for seeing that maybe this person should just wait till they have time to enjoy such a wonderful adventure. It has a lot of ups and downs, but can only be enjoyed if you have the time to do so.

Harry

 

[warpdrive]

Oh, and Kara, the local police don't have the right to violate your civil rights to search you just because you put something into your pocketbook in a park. They also don't have the right to ask you to produce your I'd as long as you are not operating a motor vehicle such as a car or boat.

I tell them all the time to kiss my rear and stop harassing me and if they even look at me funny I tell them I want their desk sergeant to come down to make a formal complaint while I take down their badge numbers and then demand them for their IDs which they must provide to the public when asked...they normally run away at this time.

Oh, and I don't advocate drug use of any kind. It was a joke do to your reply.
Yet you are more then welcome to bring all your kids over to see my quads. I hope they stay in school unlike you.

Harry

 

[pssh]

You know me, always dropping out of school and popping babies out like a baby cannon.

I was able to, and did breed crickets and make cages at 13 I know tons of little kids who I know could do it. You just have to get into the smart kid loop! lots of them go to schools with programs for above average students. It's hard to find one who is that dedicated, but they exist. You just have to find one whose interest is mainly in chameleons! Good luck

You don't have to spend money left and right if you are wealthy. I like to start and finish projects. Sometimes they are successful, sometimes it's a complete disaster. The reason I do it is because I like making things and exercising my mind. Sure, I could buy a cage and all sorts of other stuff, but I think it's fun to make them. Right now, my current projects include making plugs (ear jewelry,) making and testing semi and completely artificial insect rearing diets, collecting spiders around my house (I have a TON of Steatoda grossa! I found 12 egg sacks!!!) and plant propagation (I'm still working on the flies.) I could just go buy the jewelry, artificial diets, the spiders, and the plants, but I gain more from doing it myself and I save money that can be put aside for emergencies. I'm a really hands on kind of person, but I can understand how you would come to that conclusion.

 

[warpdrive]

Sorry to say Kara but I'm a dumb as a rock so I wasn't let in to the smart kids club.
Yet I did collect a ton of incects as a child while staying in the catskill mountains each summer. Some of which my mother would never allow in our bungalow due to how dangerous they looked.

I too don't mind spiders as long as they leave me alone. Heck I allow a few in my home to live and if they help get rid or a lose housefly or two then they can stay alive and happy where they are.
Yet I wouldn't say that I even truly breed crickets. I just keep a tub of soil in with my adults and let the fun happen on their own. In fact I personaly just don't have the time or love required to truly breed any insect, yet I am getting deeper into mantids because they are so cool.

I have no dought that this kid can breed crickets or anything else they so chose. Yet the amount needed for just 1 week is quite allot and will require a steady stream of crickets to suport feeding just a few baby panthers. With school, homework, building cages, taking care of the baby panthers in an enjoyable way, and finally some chores around the house, I'm not too sure if this kid understand the amount of work required for such a project.

Yet maybe he is from the smart kids club. Maybe not. After all, they did almost no research into the subject matter or the main question would not even have to be asked as a smart kid would know the answer. Of course Jared already knows this, that's why he's leading him on by saying it's so easy.

Anyway, good night all.

Harry

 

[Cainschams]

This right here means more to me than most of you will ever know. This right here is my greatest achievement and yes I sold him. I look at this picture all of the time but I know he and damn near almost all the chams I have raised and sold went to good homes. This is my last picture of him.

You guys do not get me or what I am saying. We all have a different perception on what this hobby is but you really do have to be realistic to accept all aspects. Call my way what you want but it is more realistic. You guys buy off of "reputable breeders" that do not put in the "love and time" you guys think it takes. Why dont you guys let them know how you feel breeding animals should be?

 

[fbiband]

i have a simple answer to this whole thread (hopefully). like someone said just looking at pictures is just as much fun for an hour a day.....and instead of going bankrupt and ruining your daily schedule just get more chameleons and don't breed them. I guarantee this will give u more experience in the mean while, this will also give you a clue of how expensive it is going to be with all those babies. Not that you don't not have a clue, but its good to see first hand. If i were you just get 1 maybe 2 more chams if you really love this hobby in the mean time

 

[warpdrive]

I just wish Jared would answer my question since my calculations are so off....

I have right now 19 eggs in my closet. If all of them hatch, just how many crickets will I have in my house if I decide to breed them for the babies to eat for the next 4 months or so?

Let's at least give some ultra conservative numbers:
At 10 crickets per day for each baby (yes I know they will need to eat far more in the beginning), that's 190 pinheads per day...200 if you count die offs or eaten ones. That's 1400 per week. That's 5600 per month.
Sure, since almost anyone can breed crickets beside all the slow kids on this forum who have problems because they couldn't get into the cool smart kids club, just how many crickets will this kid have in his parents bedroom making a shit-ton of noise be required to produce that many consecutive piheads for the next few months????

Kara, there is a clear differance between breeding crickets and breeding crickets to feed off my 19 babies that I could have in the next 6 months. I would love for Jared to at least answer this now that it is presented for the 3rd time.

Harry

 

[CleaTheChameleon]

I'm with Harry on this one, like I said before, if you're doing this for the experience then really enjoy and experience it. What's the point of breeding for the experience if you only want to see the babies and interact for an hour or less a day? You might as well just look at photos of hatchlings and call it a day.

If I bred I'd be like Jann, I would enjoy them right up until they had to be sent to their new homes. She did such a fantastic job raising her little veileds, and put so much time into really interacting with them that now nearly all ~30 babies are beautifully adjusted to living with people and were strong and healthy when they left her house. Whether or not you believe in handling chameleons is a different issue altogether, but who can say that Jann or Stefan didn't get all the juice they could out of the experience?

I completely agree with Olimpia. Thanks for the name mention by the way

This hobby does require A LOT of dedication and time. Therefore many people do things VERY differently and don't agree on all the same things. So when someone goes to reply to a thread of some sort, another member that believe they are completely right ( which may or which not be the case) prepares to argue with the other person. Why you might ask? Because many people are scared of being proved wrong. I'm not saying Jared or Harry are who i am really talking about but i have seen this a lot.

Jared has much experience with chameleons and we all know that. But i can say that some of his posts in this thread were a bit on the wee side. Sorry if im a poopy face Jared.

Harry on the other hand is also a great guy with much experience. And both Jared and Harry made great points in their posts..just something went off that could have been SO prevented. Both knowledgeable guys and i have nothing against either one.

This thread very well brings me very good memories of the amount of dis-satisfaction i got on my thread when i announced Clea was bred. That spun quickly out of control. The people that cared to tell me i made a mistake in breeding her, cared for Clea but could have been more nice about and not send me horrific PM's...then the people that supported me threw it all were very supportive and i appreciated that. As i still do. Im sure the ORIGINAL POSTER of this thread didn't expect this thread was going to get so out of hand as i didn't with my thread many months back.

I have been messaging with the kid and answering questions. He very well knows what he is getting into now and knows what comes as responsibility from him and whoever helps him out. Heck if the kid lived as close to me as BocaJan...i would go help him out as BocaJan always helped me out.

All im trying to say is that we all have very different opinions on many different subjects of chameleons, and that's where things take a toll when we try to prove another member wrong just because we have done it differently..and it has worked out.

Just to clear it up here....Jared and Harry..if you do get offended by this....don't because that was not my intention.

Thank you for your time.

 

[pssh]

Well, if you're talking pinheads, I think 500 or so adults should make more than enough eggs every day to feed off. You just have to time them right. Throw in a tub of dirt, pull it out, put it in a different container, wait a week or so, and bam! Pinheads! If you wanted to be extra Sure you have enough, 1000 adults would be plenty. Actually, that sounds like it might almost be easier than buying them since I keep 500-1000 adults anyways. I'll throw some dirt in and let you know.

 

[Psi]

Kara, there is a clear differance between breeding crickets and breeding crickets to feed off my 19 babies that I could have in the next 6 months. I would love for Jared to at least answer this now that it is presented for the 3rd time.

Harry

Why don't you come to the realization that he said he was breeding crickets to reduce the cost not to completely feed his entire clutch

You're making poor assumptions based on nothing.

You're also pulling ridiculous numbers out of thin air to attempt to prove a point that you cannot make, 100,000,000 Crickets? are you insane?

Breeding/Raising chams isn't nearly as challenging as you're making it out to be.

 

[mardithepanther]

It would be greatly appreciated if you quizzed me. To let everybody know what I know and help me with what I don't.

Assumptions are not appreciated thank you

 

[Ace]

I completely agree with Olimpia. Thanks for the name mention by the way

This hobby does require A LOT of dedication and time. Therefore many people do things VERY differently and don't agree on all the same things. So when someone goes to reply to a thread of some sort, another member that believe they are completely right ( which may or which not be the case) prepares to argue with the other person. Why you might ask? Because many people are scared of being proved wrong. I'm not saying Jared or Harry are who i am really talking about but i have seen this a lot.

Jared has much experience with chameleons and we all know that. But i can say that some of his posts in this thread were a bit on the wee side. Sorry if im a poopy face Jared

Harry on the other hand is also a great guy with much experience. And both Jared and Harry made great points in their posts..just something went off that could have been SO prevented. Both knowledgeable guys and i have nothing against either one.

This thread very well brings me very good memories of the amount of dis-satisfaction i got on my thread when i announced Clea was bred. That spun quickly out of control. The people that cared to tell me i made a mistake in breeding her, cared for Clea but could have been more nice about and not send me horrific PM's...then the people that supported me threw it all were very supportive and i appreciated that. As i still do. Im sure the ORIGINAL POSTER of this thread didn't expect this thread was going to get so out of hand as i didn't with my thread many months back.

I have been messaging with the kid and answering questions. He very well knows what he is getting into now and knows what comes as responsibility from him and whoever helps him out. Heck if the kid lived as close to me as BocaJan...i would go help him out as BocaJan always helped me out.

All im trying to say is that we all have very different opinions on many different subjects of chameleons, and that's where things take a toll when we try to prove another member wrong just because we have done it differently..and it has worked out.

Just to clear it up here....Jared and Harry..if you do get offended by this....don't because that was not my intention.

Thank you for your time.

Finally the voice of reason....well said

 

[pssh]

Okie dokie! How are you going to ensure the female will have everything she needs to be healthy?

What happens if the lady gets egg bound? What do the vets give her to induce laying?

 

[Ace]

Okie dokie! How are you going to ensure the female will have everything she needs to be healthy?

What happens if the lady gets egg bound? What do the vets give her to induce laying?

you would be the first to quiz someone Kara... And frankly even I'm scared if you quizzed me.... Goodluck kid ..... You are goin to need it... And don't be afraid to ask questions ...

 

[pssh]

You know me I don't know that much. I think you'd be fine if I quizzed you. I mean, you don't need to know every single known thing about panthers, their food, and habitat to breed them.

 

[Ace]

You know me I don't know that much. I think you'd be fine if I quizzed you. I mean, you don't need to know every single known thing about panthers, their food, and habitat to breed them.

Says the person that knows or has a logical assumption panthers in the wild have about 20 different bug feeders / mainly stick bugs and hoppers

 

[pssh]

Hey now, I'm almost positive I read that in an article/journal. I also happen to remember things that didn't happen too though...

 

[warpdrive]

Well, if you're talking pinheads, I think 500 or so adults should make more than enough eggs every day to feed off. You just have to time them right. Throw in a tub of dirt, pull it out, put it in a different container, wait a week or so, and bam! Pinheads! If you wanted to be extra Sure you have enough, 1000 adults would be plenty. Actually, that sounds like it might almost be easier than buying them since I keep 500-1000 adults anyways. I'll throw some dirt in and let you know.

That sounds great for the first week Kara, now when the adults die off and you need pinheads for the second week, just what do you do?
What about the 3rd week, then the 4th? How about the following month, then the next?
Or do we need not think that far ahead when planing such a project?
_______________________________

To the others, I never said that breeding panthers or anything else was hard nor easy. You have to remember that a few members twisted my words to suit their arguments. In other words, they made assumptions of me. In fact they made assumptions of the OP as well, but that seems OK when you all agree with each other.

Try to remember, I was one of the few people that Stephan is talking about when he speaks about his breeding of Clea...I was the outcast then too, and am used to it by now.
The thing is I'm at least replying based on the OP replys, not on what I can do or what others can do. In other words, I'm using what was said and giving my thoughts based on it.

I welcome disagreements. It's what makes this world so great. Sorry that others don't so much. Sadly I'll still stand by my thoughts till proven wrong. Once again, if the OP did his homework and realized just what they are getting intoi, then the main question would never have had to be asked. Prove me wrong on that one folks or back off.
I've made my case and sofar no one has been able to prove me wrong with out twisting my words around.
Not saying I'm totally right, but that others here can't be right or wrong if they didn't make assumptions of their own....and you all made assumptions.

Harry