time to breed

depends

If you enjoy caring for the animals and researching then you might want to give it a try. If you are breeding you're own feeders then you're chances of making a profit are dramatically increased, although it's not easy. Also if you do not already have a mistking you would need one misting all those chams will get old fasttttt and you will never be able to leave them. Also you can find buyers online or just go to different pet stores although pet stores will usually only give you half of what they are worth. Alsoooo you must choose you're panthers carefully; in breeding you need either quantity or high quality ideally both. lol
In short if you enjoy the process do it and if you're just looking for a quick buck then don't.
 
Cainschams said:
The "cost of raising 69 baby veileds" thread really cannot be compared to breeding panthers.
Click to expand...

This is true. I raised and sold a few small clutches of Panthers after the mega clutch of Veileds. Panthers do not eat nearly as much as Veileds, and they did in fact sell for much more despite the fact they ended up not being a pure locale (not my intention). Of course I had all the supplies from the Veiled clutch, and again I can ship super cheap increasing my chances of selling against other vendors. I would also like to think I have a decent name in the business and am known for healthy animals.
 
Julirs said:
This is true. I raised and sold a few small clutches of Panthers after the mega clutch of Veileds. Panthers do not eat nearly as much as Veileds, and they did in fact sell for much more despite the fact they ended up not being a pure locale (not my intention). Of course I had all the supplies from the Veiled clutch, and again I can ship super cheap increasing my chances of selling against other vendors. I would also like to think I have a decent name in the business and am known for healthy animals.
Click to expand...

which is why im considering a Leon baby in the future:rolleyes:
 
Breeding crickets is nasty! Don't go there! Your house will smell like poop mixed with rotting eggs, and nasty unwashed feet! Seriously, crickets can stink up your whole house. The only crickets that might[/M] be worth breeding for are pinheads. Do you know how much money would go into raising your own feeders?!? I mean, selling off extras helps level the loss/gain ratio, but you wouldn't be selling them off. Fruit flies are a pain in the butt because of all the new cultures you would have to make pretty much daily so that they are producing when you need them (which isn't as easy as you would think, or at least not for me!)

Plus, I use like 10 tubs for my bugs, and only two are for crickets. So if I wanted to start breeding my own I would need, at the very least about 15 tubs to keep the sizes separated.
 
Cainschams said:
The "cost of raising 69 baby veileds" thread really cannot be compared to breeding panthers.
Click to expand...

I was using it as an example. The thread is very well broken down, and I put it there as an example of things to consider when breeding.
 
warpdrive said:
What you need is not what you think...

You need to do your homework first and know just what you are getting into. Sadly this seems to not have been done yet, and I'll bet that you didn't read the links provided to you as well.

Seems like this is what he is doing. He never asked for a run down on every aspect of breeding or rearing babies. Have a little faith! Assumptions.........well, you know

Forget the word profit in your above reply as you'll need what is called an investment of at least $1000 if not triple that since you have no clue just what you are getting into.
Do you have a grand of your own money right now?

Usually you have to invest in something to make a profit.

You say you don't have the time. Are you sure the people who are willing to help have any idea just what they are getting into and how do you know that they will do a good enough job to keep them alive?
Personally, I wouldn't count on anyone's help as the more you do, the more they will let you down.

He didnt say he doesnt have the time. Just asking if he is gone 6 hours a day if he will still have enough to care for them. I answered that pretty thoroughly I think.

So you are going to breed your feeders for them? Cool, you'll need to have enough space to house 100,000,000 crickets, and 100,000 silkies...let's add in a few manted projects while we are at it as well. Let's not forget all the fruitfly cups you'll need to start with...are they all going to be housed in your bedroom? Because mommy and daddy won't want the noise from the crickets in their room.

I dont know about you but I highly doubt I have gone through a million crix the whole time I have been keeping and breeding/raising babies. I wouldnt even waste time or money feeding babies small silk worms. Many breeders raise their animals on crickets alone until they are sold. My panther hatchlings from the first clutch I hatched didnt eat one of the FFs from the many cultures I bought for them so I stopped getting them for panther babies.

Want me to keep going?

Not really.

I say go for it. It will teach you to never start a project with out doing the research first.

Harry
Click to expand...

Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today, Harry!! Usually you are one of the most nicest and helpful on the forum:) Im not trying to be rude but I thought this post was. I usually like what you post!!!!

LPR, it is a great example of breaking down the costs. I didnt mean it to sound like the thread is useless because he is breeding panthers:eek:

Honestly, I find it funny when people reply about time, how many different feeders you need, how you have to mist them 24/7:rolleyes:, etc when they have not experienced breeding and raising themselves. I think its best to reply with experience in hand and not what you think its like.

I have already stated that its not quite as hard as some make it out to be. Besides a few big breeders out there most of us hobby breeders have real jobs and cannot be around 24/7. Once you have a routine the daily chores go rather quickly and then you can get back to life. They arent human babies that need attention at all times of the day.
 
I hate how he came to this forum asking for help and you all took a big crap on his dreams putting him down......i mean really guys not cool. Some of the stuff was nice but what a couple people said was not cool. I know im new to this forum but i do know when someone is being a jerk. You are supposed to help people remember. There is such thing as constructive criticism, but please don't go over bored.
 
Cainschams said:
LPR, it is a great example of breaking down the costs. I didnt mean it to sound like the thread is useless because he is breeding panthers:eek:
Click to expand...

I guess thats the problem with forums, don't know how you are actually meaning to say it sometimes.

@OP, while some people took different approaches to tell you their opinion, don't get discouraged. If you really want to go through with it, I suggest you do more research, along with taking your time. You're going to have to wait at least a year for her to be able to breed, so you might as well do a few months worth of research, and building an appropriate enclosure for a female. jmo

LPR08
 
Need space!!!!!

A big consideration after you have all the information that has been mentioned so far is space. I have just gone through raising 2 clutches of panthers and that has been my most difficult problem so far. Once these babies get to around 2.5 to 3 months you need to figure out how you can house them in individual cages. Even with small cages, 20+ are going to take up some room. You also have to automate their water unless you want to start 20+ drip cups a couple times a day at minimum and then figure out how the drainage will work. After the money spent on food, and time spent on cleaning, just figuring out the logistics of keeping all the babies at optimum health and in the best enclosure until you can sell them off is a big part of taking on a project like this. Unless you have a dedicated room (my wife gave me the guest bedroom) you may not want to attempt it. Luckily, I have a workshop where I can create my own cages so it makes it easier for me to fit the cages to the room and still have good drainage etc. JMO
 
Dear mister wonderful Jared,

This difference between you and I is that you are an optimist and I am a realist.
So we both look at thing differently and as a result we seem to disagree once more.

But since you feel I'm so wrong I explain how I came to my choice of answers...

Fist off, we are dealing with a typical 1r year old. You should get a few, they are fun.
You see, this is the start when good boys and girls turn into monsters, and as threy grow older they don't get any better. By the time they turn 18 they think that they know everything and you are clearly stupid. Regardless that you've been around the block a few times and they are first walking just down the street, they still think you're dumber then dirt and at this age, they can probably kick your butt if you try anything to stop them.

Now of course there are exceptions. I was probably one of the few people on this forum to tell stephan to not listen to all the forum members who told him to not breed his female.
Why is Stephan different? Well he at least did his research first. This kid thinks he did, but I'm not too convinced of that.

Next let's talk about time. He is in school. It' is time for him to concentrate on that first. Maybe take some extra activitys that will help him advance in life. While I spent far more then just 6 hours in school, I also had to travel anywhere from a 15 min walk to a 1 hour ride each way. It must be nice to not have to travel and just cross the street to school like him/her. 4tephan at least had some hands on help from an experienced breeder, I can't say the same for the OP.
While away, this person will miss 50% of the time with the babies unless they get lucky and can truly time the eggs to hatch during summer vacation. I hope that is OK with the parents and have no vacation plans that will ghave to be changed. Let's also not forget that the more outside help from less experienced chameleon keepers they use, the more that can go wrong.
But hay, it's easy right?

Then there is all the feeders for each day. I have 19 eggs in my closet right now. So how many crickets will I need at any given time in order to have enough pinheads? Agree or disagree, I'm not that far off in my calculations.

Now of course I can not only feed just crickets to my future babies, I can even feed just crickets to my adults too. I could also gutload with just some dog food or something from flukers but I chose to be different I guess. Had problems with silkies bro? Sorry to hear it. I guess you panther were not as easy as you say.

I could go on but this is getting quite silly. I don't think this person has the room for just all the feders needed to save on food, never mind the room to deal with the babies.

I also don't think they have enough money to buy all the things and food that wil be needed.

Harry
 
warpdrive said:
Dear mister wonderful Jared,

This difference between you and I is that you are an optimist and I am a realist.
So we both look at thing differently and as a result we seem to disagree once more.

But since you feel I'm so wrong I explain how I came to my choice of answers...

Fist off, we are dealing with a typical 1r year old. You should get a few, they are fun.
You see, this is the start when good boys and girls turn into monsters, and as threy grow older they don't get any better. By the time they turn 18 they think that they know everything and you are clearly stupid. Regardless that you've been around the block a few times and they are first walking just down the street, they still think you're dumber then dirt and at this age, they can probably kick your butt if you try anything to stop them.

Now of course there are exceptions. I was probably one of the few people on this forum to tell stephan to not listen to all the forum members who told him to not breed his female.
Why is Stephan different? Well he at least did his research first. This kid thinks he did, but I'm not too convinced of that.

Next let's talk about time. He is in school. It' is time for him to concentrate on that first. Maybe take some extra activitys that will help him advance in life. While I spent far more then just 6 hours in school, I also had to travel anywhere from a 15 min walk to a 1 hour ride each way. It must be nice to not have to travel and just cross the street to school like him/her. 4tephan at least had some hands on help from an experienced breeder, I can't say the same for the OP.
While away, this person will miss 50% of the time with the babies unless they get lucky and can truly time the eggs to hatch during summer vacation. I hope that is OK with the parents and have no vacation plans that will ghave to be changed. Let's also not forget that the more outside help from less experienced chameleon keepers they use, the more that can go wrong.
But hay, it's easy right?

Then there is all the feeders for each day. I have 19 eggs in my closet right now. So how many crickets will I need at any given time in order to have enough pinheads? Agree or disagree, I'm not that far off in my calculations.

Now of course I can not only feed just crickets to my future babies, I can even feed just crickets to my adults too. I could also gutload with just some dog food or something from flukers but I chose to be different I guess. Had problems with silkies bro? Sorry to hear it. I guess you panther were not as easy as you say.

I could go on but this is getting quite silly. I don't think this person has the room for just all the feders needed to save on food, never mind the room to deal with the babies.

I also don't think they have enough money to buy all the things and food that wil be needed.

Harry
Click to expand...

Mister wonderful Jared? Awwwe, thank you!!! Usually I dont get compliments like that because I am a "very opinionated, stubborn, satanic:rolleyes: asshole."

I never said you were so wrong because most of your last post was assumptions.

I really dont want kids and know how to not have them. Why? Because I am selfish. I like spending my time doing what I want when I want. I dont want a GF for this reason. Hell, I dont even want a dog for this reason. This is why I like my lizards. I spend the 1 hour a day at most with my animals and then I am free to do what I please. If I have a mess of babies that might be 1.5 to 2 hours max. Maybe I just have a good, quick, easy routine.

50% of time with babies? WOW! Again, we do not need to spend 24/7 with them and they probably dont want that either. I forgot though, chameleons love to be trained, handled and looked at 24/7:rolleyes:

Your calculations are off. Have you read Julirs thread on raising 69 babies?

Did I ever say I only feed my animals crickets gut loaded with dog food:confused: If so please find where I did.

No, I never had problems with silkies. Bred, hatched and raised those too.

I claimed panthers were easy in my case comparing them to other animals I have raised. It does take work just not as much as a lot of you claim, who havent yet raised them. This is one of the reasons I do not keep them anymore. They were cool but others are cooler and more of a challenge.

Dare I say, to save money he can also collect WC bugs? Here is another can of worms I opened for those who think "oh my poor little cham can get a parasite. Better just use farm raised insects (which are just as easy to have parasites)"

It is silly.......to keep assuming.

I agree he should have more experience with general care before breeding. In a way I am just trying to argue my point that these animals do not need to treated like human babies. You parrots can keep repeating what you read without a lick of experience.

And before its assumed I am acting high and mighty. I would not call myself an expert with any species but I do have some experience and this is where I speak from.
 
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Oh my gosh. Generalizations like these are such bs. Realists and poopyfaces are two different things. All of that is pretty much assuming that everyone is incompetent and all kids are monsters. With your reasoning all people are monsters. That is pretty far off. Just about every single kid I know has actual reasoning for what they do, but because they lack experience and may be a little impulsive they don't think about it from different angles. That's not really a bad thing you know. That's how we learn.

How can you assume so much about a single person who you have never even talked to? Who is to say he doesn't have money, space, and dedication? Are you going to assume I am a monster and I'm incompetent? That I think I'm always right and don't listen to reasoning? That would be far from the truth. Are you going to tell me I can't attempt breeding because I'm a kid and don't have help from a 'real' breeder? Will you assume I live in a shack too? Maybe you think that I do drugs non-stop and have unprotected sex left and right with every guy that walks by too? Do you think I've had multiple children and dropped out of school because I just didn't care? Geeze.

And I don't think timing the hatching will be all that hard. I'm just planning on leaving my eggs in a cooler room for the winter and let the natural temperature break the diapause. That would put them at hatching around June-July. I think I will only have 20 max from two different females anyways... I'm not even sure some are fertile because one female came gravid.
 
im a optimistic realist:p or a realistic optimist o_O...eh

this has been fun but i think the kid gets it....at least i hope so...
 
pssh said:
Just about every single kid I know has actual reasoning for what they do, but because they lack experience and may be a little impulsive they don't think about it from different angles. That's not really a bad thing you know. That's how we learn.

How can you assume so much about a single person who you have never even talked to? Who is to say he doesn't have money, space, and dedication? Are you going to assume I am a monster and I'm incompetent? That I think I'm always right and don't listen to reasoning? That would be far from the truth. Are you going to tell me I can't attempt breeding because I'm a kid and don't have help from a 'real' breeder? Will you assume I live in a shack too? Maybe you think that I do drugs non-stop and have unprotected sex left and right with every guy that walks by too? Do you think I've had multiple children and dropped out of school because I just didn't care? Geeze.QUOTE]

not too start anything, but i cant read your post without some form of tone:p..lol...

but i agree:cool:
Click to expand...
 
Wow, way to twist my words Jared. Nice job.
The thing is, I baseed my ansers on his replys. I'll stand by them because I was not only correct when is came to Stephan, but I'm normaly correct when I read into things based from a kids point of view.

I realy don't have time to debate this, its why my last reply was so long yet still lacks detail into a lot of my thoughts. Like yeah, he will be gone for most of the day when they need some care. Of course again, I guess I really have no idea because I've never delt with raising panthers, yet I have done my share of breeding other things that require live food and well, I'm not too sure I would want to give that little bit of care that you did for yours. Why have them then if all you need to do is one feeding? Heck, when I got my first panther at 6 weeks old I was doing 2 feedings. I guess I was working too hard. I guess like you I could have just fed him crickets every day like you. Yet I didn't. I guess I worked too hard yet again. I guess in order to save money, I didn't buy a misting system so I spent far too much time misting 3 to 5 times a day when I could have misted once like you during that quick 1 hour of care. I guess I worked too hard yet again.

I must be a poopie face I guess. Not because I needed to work so hard, but because what's the point in having them again if you don't have the time to enjoy them?

Oh, and Kara, I got some really cool shrooms if you wana come over for tea.

Harry
 
warpdrive said:
I must be a poopie face I guess. Not because I needed to work so hard, but because what's the point in having them again if you don't have the time to enjoy them?
Click to expand...

I'm with Harry on this one, like I said before, if you're doing this for the experience then really enjoy and experience it. What's the point of breeding for the experience if you only want to see the babies and interact for an hour or less a day? You might as well just look at photos of hatchlings and call it a day.

If I bred I'd be like Jann, I would enjoy them right up until they had to be sent to their new homes. She did such a fantastic job raising her little veileds, and put so much time into really interacting with them that now nearly all ~30 babies are beautifully adjusted to living with people and were strong and healthy when they left her house. Whether or not you believe in handling chameleons is a different issue altogether, but who can say that Jann or Stefan didn't get all the juice they could out of the experience?
 
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