Random questions

ehdee6

ehdee6

Member
I have some random questions. I had some friends over who were asking chameleon questions I couldn't answer lol! If anyone could answer the below that would be awesome.

For preface, each of my chams are kept in separate areas of the house and each has their own dedicated plants and set up. They've never been in the same room, and I never intend them to be. Mr. Jack staying at the colder end of the house for his more drastic night temp drop and Littlefoot in the warmer area.

Is a solormeter really worth it? I have 2 chams and may add a 3rd at some point. There's one on sale for $100 off ($370 Canadian tax+shipping included - $265 US). If you have one, do you actually send it to get it calibrated each year? Did it pay for itself considering bulb replacement cost?

Can chams share free range areas, at separate individual times? Or is it best to make each their own? I'm currently thinking of making each a spot to hang out by a window while I clean their cage.

If I brought one into the same room as the other, but they still can't see each other. Would they still know they're each there? Can they smell each other?

If I had one on a plant, took it away and put another on it, would it know a different cham was on it?

How far away can they be in the same room before they notice each other?

And most random of all... Do they get to know individual chams? Like if you breed them, say Timmy hooked up with Tammy and Tina... Would Timmy later be able to tell Tammy from Tina, if they were to meet again? 🤣

Thank you for any answers...

Here are Littlefoot and Mr. Jack today.

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ehdee6 said:
I have some random questions. I had some friends over who were asking chameleon questions I couldn't answer lol! If anyone could answer the below that would be awesome.

For preface, each of my chams are kept in separate areas of the house and each has their own dedicated plants and set up. They've never been in the same room, and I never intend them to be. Mr. Jack staying at the colder end of the house for his more drastic night temp drop and Littlefoot in the warmer area.

Is a solormeter really worth it? I have 2 chams and may add a 3rd at some point. There's one on sale for $100 off ($370 Canadian tax+shipping included - $265 US). If you have one, do you actually send it to get it calibrated each year? Did it pay for itself considering bulb replacement cost?

Can chams share free range areas, at separate individual times? Or is it best to make each their own? I'm currently thinking of making each a spot to hang out by a window while I clean their cage.

If I brought one into the same room as the other, but they still can't see each other. Would they still know they're each there? Can they smell each other?

If I had one on a plant, took it away and put another on it, would it know a different cham was on it?

How far away can they be in the same room before they notice each other?

And most random of all... Do they get to know individual chams? Like if you breed them, say Timmy hooked up with Tammy and Tina... Would Timmy later be able to tell Tammy from Tina, if they were to meet again? 🤣

Thank you for any answers...

Here are Littlefoot and Mr. Jack today.

View attachment 363925

View attachment 363926
Click to expand...
Not sure about the accuracy of my answers, but I can share what I know and believe. :)
I love my solarmeter, even though it’s not something I use very often. I’m able to ensure that my uvb lights are putting out the adequate ranges for my animals and where exactly the best placement for basking areas is. I’m able to determine when the lights need to be be changed, which often is a few months after the one year mark of use. The old 14% uvb bulb for my bearded dragon might not be putting out enough uvb for them, but is perfect for moving to use for a chameleon. It helps me to meet all of my animals needs and keep them healthy and probably is saving me a bit with buying new uvb bulbs when actually needed vs per safe routine.
I have no idea where I would send it to get it calibrated…the manufacturer maybe? Honestly never even considered that it might need it. You’ve given me something to look into.
Regarding chameleons sharing the same spaces (at different times, of course)…my main concern would be that they are both clean and clear of any parasites that they could infect each other with. I honestly don’t know if they mark areas with scent, but I don’t believe they do. They don’t have the greatest sense of smell, I’ve heard.
Chameleons use vibration as one source of communication, and I believe they are fully aware when another chameleon is near. I wouldn’t be surprised if my chameleons in my bedroom knew all about the chameleons on the other side of my small house in the other bedroom.
Due to having a small house, I’ve kept my enclosures side by side, with views blocked of course. They seem to be aware that there is another near them, but as long as they don’t see them, they are ok.
Let me tell you about Stella and Hammlet to answer your last question and you can come to your own conclusion.
I had 2 adult female veileds (Grumpy and Stella) when I got a baby male veiled, Hammlet. All 3 were side by side with views blocked. Once Hammlet matured, I found a very receptive Stella had moved aside the coco coir panel that was blocking the view between her and Hammlet. My sneaky girl had put on her prettiest colors and was peeking/flirting with the handsome boy neighbor. It was cute, but I took additional steps to block their view. I did not want them to mate and it never happened. Every chance Stella had to sneak a peek at Hammlet, she did. Every time, he put on his best and brightest colors and did his beautiful dance for her. Hammlet and my other girl had also seen each other at times and neither showed any reaction. Grumpy had the same coco coir panel as Stella and never moved hers when she was receptive to see Hammlet. Grumpy had fully stopped laying eggs, but Stella still laid once a year around March. Hammlet started having health issues, but still he and Stella loved when they could look at each other. Hammlet passed away in March. Stella didn’t lay any eggs that year and hasn’t since. I have a ‘new’ male veiled. He and Stella have seen each other. Neither one cares or shows any reaction. Stella is an older lady now, having just turned 6, but Lucky has been here for going on 2 years. They are in the same room, across from each other - same as Stella and Hammlet had been when she climbed to the top of her enclosure to peek over the dividing curtain and this happened.
 
I can't imagine the math it would take to calculate the break even point for a solar meter. Obviously the more cages and lights you have the sooner you will reach that point. If peace of mind has any value then it is worth quite a bit. I used to have dozens and dozens of cages I monitored and it was indispensable. Now I only have 4 but if anyone seems a bit off it's easy to be sure UVB is not the issue. I didn't know calibration was necessary. I hope some one else has that answer. @nightanole
 
You shouldnt need to have it sent out "for non commercial use" if you are using the 6.5. The drift in a professional setting (zoo) is +-0.25 UVI over 5 years, which is less than the variance between two new units.

As for paying for itself. Mine easily paid for its self, with 3 cages running 46" 54 watt either arcaida or zoomed depending on the sale.

lets do the math:
without meter you should change them out once a year. It cost about $100 for 3 of the 46".
In my experience i get around 3 years before they are at half power, and are only down about 25% after 1 year, with most of the dip happening in the first 30-60 days as the bulbs are breaking in.
So in my case the ROI is only a year for a $100 uvi meter.

Expert mode:
3 cages, each running 1 uvb and 1 6500k bulb. 6500k bulbs i get around 5-6 years before they start getting dim or funny colored(purplish)
Buy only 12%/10.0 bulbs
Adjust distance of bulbs to match a 6%/5.0. Or wrap them in hardware cloth to block light, and unwrap as needed.
Beardies get the full 12%.
When beardies are at half power (6%) rotate them into cham cage
When cham bulbs are at half power, rotate them into the 6500k slots.
 
You said…”Can chams share free range areas, at separate individual times? Or is it best to make each their own? I'm currently thinking of making each a spot to hang out by a window while I clean their cage”..I agree with @MissSkittles on this…my concern only would be transmission of diseases or parasites from one to another.

You said…”If I brought one into the same room as the other, but they still can't see each other. Would they still know they're each there? Can they smell each other?”… you might be interested in reading these…
http://web.archive.org/web/20080418003008/http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/5014/hoot.html
https://academic.oup.com/icb/article/63/2/484/7208014?login=false

You said…”If I had one on a plant, took it away and put another on it, would it know a different cham was on it? “…not sure about this one. I’ll see what I can find.

You asked…”How far away can they be in the same room before they notice each other”…see the sites above (second paragraph) for one part of the answer. This might be of interest to you but isn’t an anaswer exactly..
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/eyes-and-distance.45767/
 
@MissSkittles awe, that's such a cute little love story! And his dancing! 😍 That's interesting she hasn't laid eggs either.

Thank you all for the insight of the solormeter. I got the impression it needed to be calibrated form the review on chameleon academy. But that makes sense it would only be the case for commercial use. I probably will get it, it seems like it will at least give me peace of mind knowing they're in the right UVB area and the bulbs are working. @nightanole an extra thank you for the bulb breakdown. That's such a thoughtful way to use the bulbs as they get older. It seems like a waste to toss them away once the UVB isn't as powerful, I'll be switching them into my plant area for now on!

Also thank you all for the confirmation about keeping their plants and areas to themselves. I was thinking cross contamination might be an issue. @jamest0o0 are your chams the same species? That makes s sense that if the distance is great enough and area big enough that they wouldn't be bothered.

@kinyonga thank you for the articles, I always enjoy the sources you come up with. The study on using vibrations on a dowel really demonstrated how they could communicate through movement. Especially if their hearing isn't the best. It reminds me of how hearing impaired people can still sense the rhythm of music through the vibration of the base.

Thank you again for the responses! Now I'll be able to give some answers over dinner tomorrow lol.
 
ehdee6 said:
I have some random questions. I had some friends over who were asking chameleon questions I couldn't answer lol! If anyone could answer the below that would be awesome.

For preface, each of my chams are kept in separate areas of the house and each has their own dedicated plants and set up. They've never been in the same room, and I never intend them to be. Mr. Jack staying at the colder end of the house for his more drastic night temp drop and Littlefoot in the warmer area.

Is a solormeter really worth it? I have 2 chams and may add a 3rd at some point. There's one on sale for $100 off ($370 Canadian tax+shipping included - $265 US). If you have one, do you actually send it to get it calibrated each year? Did it pay for itself considering bulb replacement cost?

Can chams share free range areas, at separate individual times? Or is it best to make each their own? I'm currently thinking of making each a spot to hang out by a window while I clean their cage.

If I brought one into the same room as the other, but they still can't see each other. Would they still know they're each there? Can they smell each other?

If I had one on a plant, took it away and put another on it, would it know a different cham was on it?

How far away can they be in the same room before they notice each other?

And most random of all... Do they get to know individual chams? Like if you breed them, say Timmy hooked up with Tammy and Tina... Would Timmy later be able to tell Tammy from Tina, if they were to meet again? 🤣

Thank you for any answers...

Here are Littlefoot and Mr. Jack today.

View attachment 363925

View attachment 363926
Click to expand...
Individual chams are just that...individuals. Even though species share some common tendencies, some individuals are more tolerant of other chams than others. There are mellow veileds, nasty panthers, totally neurotic jackson's, on and on.

Agree with the comment that a bigger issue than ever seeing another cham, is being able to retreat or hide from one whenever they want. I've set up several free ranges in bedrooms that were shared by different species: 3 T. melleri and one F. verrucosus. But they had a room full of potted trees to range through. Once they all got used to where the others tended to spend time, they tolerated each other quite well. Also had a very large, densely planted cage housing a T. deremensis and a K. fischeri. Originally, the cage was split in half, but the fischeri kept shoving his way past the barrier ending up in the deremensis' space. I kept expecting displays and stress, but the two boys just got along, so I removed the barrier entirely. The deremensis lurked around the bottom half of the cage, the fischeri preferred the top near the heat and lights. I rehomed them both to another keeper after a couple of years and she reported they still had no issues over sharing space. She set them up in a shower surround in a basement where they peacefully co-existed for another few years. She even found them sleeping on the same branch multiple times!

What I don't know is whether the two got along because they simply recognized a familiar compatible individual or not, or what might happen if I switched one out for a stranger. Granted, every cham's markings are unique to them, and I'm sure a cham is capable of remembering familiar individuals for quite a while...especially if they see them time and time again. They need to be discerning about the details of skin marking and color change to pick up visual emotional messages the other cham is sending.

As for detecting whether another cham has passed by or not, some species "test" branches with their tongues, others don't. Some species rub or wipe their cloaca on a branch after defecating. That would leave traces another cham could pick up. My verrucosus was a religious twig tester...even within his own enclosure. He never set foot anywhere new without tongue sampling it first.

Chams have very acute full color vision even at a considerable distance. They need to be able to spot other chams in dense foliage (intruders, rivals, potential mates), so they certainly do look for them. I've watched my chams watch passing birds outside the house. I'd assume they can easily see another cham across a room. But again, SEEING another cham or not isn't really the issue. Being able to GET AWAY once they do is more important.
 
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@Carlton that's so true, I'm beginning to find that each cham really has it's own personality, regardless of species. One of the things I really appreciate about this forum is learning about all the different sort of chams. I've not looked into a verrucosus before, but what interesting markings! I like how the gray/brown on the top melts into the green/blue.
 
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