Thoughts on UVB...

[Ambilobe123]

Please don’t trample me for this, I’m not very experienced and was just wondering about this:

We’ve all seen the UVI penetration chart, right? What if the chameleon DOES spend all day within the top 6in, could you then use a spiral compact bulb?

Or if the chameleon doesn’t only stay at the top, with a screw-in bulb, and instead gets extra d3 supplementation? Like every week?

I’m only looking for more experienced keepers’ thoughts on this, and if it’s completely wrong/terrible/equivalent to mass murder, ok. It’s not something I’m doing, just a topic I’m curious about. That’s what these forums are for- sharing ideas.

 

[MissSkittles]

OMG! Trample trample trample!
It’s always good to have discussion about things and for everyone to voice their viewpoint in a post such as this.
I’m by no means as knowledgeable as others about uvb, but I will share my very basic understanding. I base all of my knowledge upon the experiences and testing of others, such as Bill Strand who has and continues to deeply explore all points of chameleon keeping. Attaching a Chameleon Academy graphic to illustrate. In my ideal world, I would have the funding and scientific staff to thoroughly explore and test chameleon keeping theory. Alas, I am just a mere chameleon hobbyist.
The problem with the coil uvb is that it while it does provide the ideal UVI of 3.0, the back of the chameleon would need to be 2-3” directly below the bulb. This can be made to work for a small baby, but as soon as it grows, you’ll be constantly needing to readjust the basking area. Then, how are we going to make sure that the chameleon stays in the exact spot needed to be of benefit?
Although I have no experience with T8, I believe that was used before T5 were created or found to be more beneficial. T8 can be used, as they were I assume at one point in history the best way to provide a UVI in a broader range. Currently, the T5 is considered to provide the broadest range of UVI, giving the chameleon a much wider spread of correct level and at a relatively consistent and decent distance.
It is my understanding that we basically supplement with D3 as sort of an insurance that our chams are receiving adequate levels. However, D3 is a fat soluble vitamin and can build up to toxic levels which can ultimately lead to serious and possibly even fatal consequences. When exposed to natural unfiltered sunlight, or a uvb light, the D3 is not overly synthesized and only what is needed is produced. Not sure I have worded that correctly, so pardon. Anyhow, if all D3 is provided by means of sun or uvb light, it does not build up as supplements do and can not lead to toxic levels. I’ve honestly no idea if any studies have been done that determine exactly how much D3 a chameleon needs and would need to receive in dosed supplement only form. However, in my personal opinion, why would we want to deprive any chameleons of natural or artificial sunlight? We humans can get all of our required calories and nutrients via artificially produced compounds and solutions, but we’d lose the wonderful experiences of eating.

 

[CasqueAbove]

A short answer is technically yes. This is what had to be done before T5 and good bulbs. The problem is it is far more difficult and there tend to be more health problems.

 

[Ambilobe123]

OMG! Trample trample trample!
It’s always good to have discussion about things and for everyone to voice their viewpoint in a post such as this.
I’m by no means as knowledgeable as others about uvb, but I will share my very basic understanding. I base all of my knowledge upon the experiences and testing of others, such as Bill Strand who has and continues to deeply explore all points of chameleon keeping. Attaching a Chameleon Academy graphic to illustrate. In my ideal world, I would have the funding and scientific staff to thoroughly explore and test chameleon keeping theory. Alas, I am just a mere chameleon hobbyist.
The problem with the coil uvb is that it while it does provide the ideal UVI of 3.0, the back of the chameleon would need to be 2-3” directly below the bulb. This can be made to work for a small baby, but as soon as it grows, you’ll be constantly needing to readjust the basking area. Then, how are we going to make sure that the chameleon stays in the exact spot needed to be of benefit?
Although I have no experience with T8, I believe that was used before T5 were created or found to be more beneficial. T8 can be used, as they were I assume at one point in history the best way to provide a UVI in a broader range. Currently, the T5 is considered to provide the broadest range of UVI, giving the chameleon a much wider spread of correct level and at a relatively consistent and decent distance.
It is my understanding that we basically supplement with D3 as sort of an insurance that our chams are receiving adequate levels. However, D3 is a fat soluble vitamin and can build up to toxic levels which can ultimately lead to serious and possibly even fatal consequences. When exposed to natural unfiltered sunlight, or a uvb light, the D3 is not overly synthesized and only what is needed is produced. Not sure I have worded that correctly, so pardon. Anyhow, if all D3 is provided by means of sun or uvb light, it does not build up as supplements do and can not lead to toxic levels. I’ve honestly no idea if any studies have been done that determine exactly how much D3 a chameleon needs and would need to receive in dosed supplement only form. However, in my personal opinion, why would we want to deprive any chameleons of natural or artificial sunlight? We humans can get all of our required calories and nutrients via artificially produced compounds and solutions, but we’d lose the wonderful experiences of eating.
View attachment 295570

A short answer is technically yes. This is what had to be done before T5 and good bulbs. The problem is it is far more difficult and there tend to be more health problems.

Thank you for the insights.

 

[Kamille the chameleon]

Please don’t trample me for this, I’m not very experienced and was just wondering about this:

We’ve all seen the UVI penetration chart, right? What if the chameleon DOES spend all day within the top 6in, could you then use a spiral compact bulb?

Or if the chameleon doesn’t only stay at the top, with a screw-in bulb, and instead gets extra d3 supplementation? Like every week?

I’m only looking for more experienced keepers’ thoughts on this, and if it’s completely wrong/terrible/equivalent to mass murder, ok. It’s not something I’m doing, just a topic I’m curious about. That’s what these forums are for- sharing ideas.

Personally I only use 18” 15 watt heat lamps and keep it about 7” above my chameleons basking area and sleeping area.

 

[suprdude]

Bill Strand: "Lighting will be the most complicated part of your setup"

 

[Shanar808]

Personally I only use 18” 15 watt heat lamps and keep it about 7” above my chameleons basking area and sleeping area.

Heat lamps? Only heat? Or am I reading this incorrectly?

 

[nightanole]

Heat lamps? Only heat? Or am I reading this incorrectly?

Dat google translate. Noty sure what "heat" was. Then again they speak in inches... But heat bulbs are not measured in inches...

Though semi off topic, many folk just run normal fluorescents or LEDs, and supplement 100% with D3 powder, for 100% control. There is nothing wrong with that since we have a few decades of data, but you have to get your dosages right, just like your UVB "dosages".

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Bill Strand: "Lighting will be the most complicated part of your setup"

For me it's been humidity.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Though semi off topic, many folk just run normal fluorescents or LEDs, and supplement 100% with D3 powder, for 100% control. There is nothing wrong with that since we have a few decades of data, but you have to get your dosages right, just like your UVB "dosages".

I went through heck (HECK, I TELL YOU!) setting up lights, basking area, measuring distances, measuring UVI with the meter, temps, humidities... and my lil' dude has only used the intended basking area once. He prefers to hang out (bask?) higher up and closer to the UVB. He also seems to prefer basking under the LED plant lights in lieu of the basking flood.

 

[nightanole]

I went through heck (HECK, I TELL YOU!) setting up lights, basking area, measuring distances, measuring UVI with the meter, temps, humidities... and my lil' dude has only used the intended basking area once. He prefers to hang out (bask?) higher up and closer to the UVB. He also seems to prefer basking under the LED plant lights in lieu of the basking flood.

Tegu has a 5x5 pot tent with perfect humdity, 2ft deep of perfect blend sand/peat/topsoil. Lots of hides, array of heatlines along a 2ft path, underpad heating with slate roofing tiles for a 3x3 basking area. Prefers to stay in the closet behind some plywood that leans against the wall...

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

'zards.

 

[suprdude]

For me it's been humidity.

"It's not the heat, it's the humidity"

I think the consequences of getting humidity wrong are less severe than getting the lighting wrong. They won't die if your humidly is off by 20%. I've been all over Madagascar, it's not that humid.

 

[MissSkittles]

I went through heck (HECK, I TELL YOU!) setting up lights, basking area, measuring distances, measuring UVI with the meter, temps, humidities... and my lil' dude has only used the intended basking area once. He prefers to hang out (bask?) higher up and closer to the UVB. He also seems to prefer basking under the LED plant lights in lieu of the basking flood.

All of mine tend to bask under their plant lights too (all have the same sansi that you have). I’ve been wondering if it’s because the light is so much brighter than the basking bulbs. As long as we provide the proper options for them, we have to trust that they’ll gravitate towards what fits their needs.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

All of mine tend to bask under their plant lights too (all have the same sansi that you have).

Non se·qui·tur: At the time, I was torn between that pad and this light.

As it happened, a while back Missus needed (wanted ) new plant lights for her plant table, and got a couple of the latter (X-configured) style. After living with them for a week or so, we figured out the difference.

The pads are definitely better for enclosures; they provide the vertical penetration needed to get the light down into the lower levels.

The X-configuration however, are definitely better for houseplant tables, where things are flatter and you want to cover a wider area with light, but you can get down closer to the plants.

She also has a couple of the 36W floods aimed at single large plants.

 

[CasqueAbove]

I always make sure my UVB is under the brightest spot. I have noticed consistently that the brighter areas are chosen, sometimes even taking them away from the UVB, that is when I reconfigured.

 

[Kamille the chameleon]

Heat lamps? Only heat? Or am I reading this incorrectly?

My bad, I had mistyped that, I meant 18” uvb, I have a small halogen heat lamp that is 50 watt day light blue, both are on for 12 hours a day.