Take a guess about their specise :)

[Meow Kitty]

personally i think its not so bad as long as he breeds them to have more so they dont need to be smuggled out. also whats the difference between smuggling and exporting, who knows maybe by him smuggling it out was safer then those two getting exported in some hellish overcramped boat or plane.
i would smuggle them out for breeding purposes
(i wouldnt now becuase i have no idea how to ensure a safe habitat for a parson and even with research im not sure id risk their lives for it just for some silly breeding, i dought youd even earn money doing this if thats what your at)

 

[showjet95]

I hope he at least managed to acquire different sexes at that age.

 

[HSTUDIO]

I would like to extend a welcome and thanks for joining and sharing on this forum! It is clear that English isn't your first language and I commend you for coming on here and doing such a great job sharing your photos and being open and honest with us about your experiences. I very much envy your trip and would LOVE to do the same sometime in my life.

Honestly, I just got back from Hawaii and had a permit to take 4 chams home with me. I didn't make use of the permit and didn't find any in the wild to take home (and yes I know they are not native to Hawaii). If I was on a guided trip to Madagascar and my guide told me it was ok to take them and he would make sure it was fine through customs I can't say I wouldn't take some as well. In a third world country if you are given the go ahead from officials i would consider that NOT smuggling. Maybe that's just me. I have seen pictures of how the locals treat them etc. And we all know how long the life expectancy is compare to well taken care of captive animals. I would bring back breeding pairs, but I can't say I would take the moral high ground when give free access and pass through customs.

Thanks for your warm welcome!
Hawaii seems to be a nice place to see around and relax besides searching for chams.

 

[HSTUDIO]

Thank you for not being scared off by what I and others said.

Viewing for your angles, I can fully understand each of your opionons sincerely(from general morally speaking,jungle wild life protection speaking, to legally or illegally speaking and breeding next generation speaking).Besides, we do have right and freedom to talk our mind, and our minds should not be supposed to be same or even similar.An egg could even have different looks when looking from different angles. I don't see anything personal. Different opionions over a fact have no reason to keep me off. I do learn things here from this forum.

 

[Kent67]

I appreciate your open-mindedness and honesty.

 

[HSTUDIO]

I'm pretty much going to say I agree. Even if you don't want to say you agree, with purchasing a chameleon or any animal variant you have agreed to animal smuggling at one point. Yes, he took from the world's biggest stock of pets, aka the wild. Did you not do so as a child? When I was a kid, I took crayfish and frogs from the wild and kept them as pets. Someone took the first Veiled from the wild "possibly illegally" and kept it as a pet of his/her own. Regardless of legality, the sense of taking from the wild and putting it into captivity has been around since we, as humans were nomadic people. Let the man do wonderful things with his two new children. Don't ruin the moment, share it with him.

To the OP, welcome to the forums! They truly are such beautiful little ones and will grow up and be just as beautiful in the end! Hopefully the negativity of those will not scare you from posting any further, as for I would love to see how they grow up!

Thanks for your warm welcome and sharing! I will update more to share with you guys.

 

[HSTUDIO]

They look amazing! It seems like you're doing a fine job with them. It was cool you got the temp/humidity and uv readings while you were there.

We did do a lot of preparaion work before leaving. Stuffs were all over our body there.

 

[HSTUDIO]

I appreciate your open-mindedness and honesty.

Thanks Kent67.
(I should thank my mam for getting this appreciation.)

 

[Montium]

Do your best for them and if they are not a pair, do your very best to find a way to breed them. Those who have taken the moral high ground I'm sure you have never done anything wrong in your life. You don't speed, you don't pollute, you don't waste food or energy. It must be hard to be such perfect beings living amongst the rest of flawed folks.

 

[eisentrauti]

Do your best for them and if they are not a pair, do your very best to find a way to breed them. Those who have taken the moral high ground I'm sure you have never done anything wrong in your life. You don't speed, you don't pollute, you don't waste food or energy. It must be hard to be such perfect beings living amongst the rest of flawed folks.

Haha, very nice

 

[Kent67]

Do your best for them and if they are not a pair, do your very best to find a way to breed them. Those who have taken the moral high ground I'm sure you have never done anything wrong in your life. You don't speed, you don't pollute, you don't waste food or energy. It must be hard to be such perfect beings living amongst the rest of flawed folks.

If you really equate stealing with driving a car, remind me never to invite you into my home.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

I dont see where the OP denied or avoided the question of how he aquired them. He himself said he took them from the wild out of honesty.

I agree with Ben about this...its not like he took hundreds or thousands...these things happen but I dont think 2 will destroy the population.
What bothers me is the fail of a smuggling plan that was linked from Madagascar to South Africa and then the final route Europe...the CRATES of animals (including: small mammals, geckos, frogs, snakes chameleons) were ditched in the OR Tambo airport, the way the authorities found out was due to a terrible smell in the airport which was coming from the crates where some animals died already. That is where smuggling gets rough.

Motherlode isnt your Parsons smuggled aswell?

To the best of my knowledge my male was not smuggled. Although when I purchased him in 2008 I did role the dice with that possibility. The animals were being imported regularly at the same time each year and for a period of 6-7 years and had no problems with customs or fish and game over that period of time and have got CITES paperwork. If they were illegal animals I would have expected something would have been done by then. As well there are reports of some Parsons that are F2 generation and some that could be still breeding today. I'm only aware of one place that has animals that could possibly be from before the ban. However believing my animals with out breeding photos or other documentation to go along with CITES paperwork does make buying these animals a role of the dice.

Sorry I have not updated my posts on this thread earlier I have been extremely busy. As far as smuggling even if it was only a pair smuggling is not the way to go. They should be exported in a way we all for the mosrt part could approve of and in a way that does not degrading exporting infrastructure instead builds export business infrastructure. The approach I have got is if enough continuous habitat and animals are conserved to demand updated CITES quotas or ask for permits for some of these breeding farms to replenish captive brood stock populations genetics. However without solid infrastructure of an established business, exports are just going to be seen as just a hustle and not a legitimate business. With this smuggling does not help. My top recommendation is to contribute to conservation of Madagascar's forest as they are a world heritage site and if enough continuous forest/habitat are conserved then look for the possibilities of seeing more species become available.

This situation has been seen before. With Asian Arowanas they were listed as engendered species because of over collecting for Feng Shui. However they are being fish farmed now and wild populations are not being over collected and captive breeding (fish farms instead of reptile/chameleon farms) is now for the most part is supplying the Arowana hobby. Something similar I think could be done with Madagascar and other countries chameleons are from. Although wild habitat for Arowanas still has to be protected as similar to forest habitat of chameleons from Madagascar.

Calumma oshaughnessyi are more protected than other species in eastern Madagascar however that accomplishment does not warrant smuggling. Your babies are in captivity now take good care of them.

Jeremy

 

[chameleonneeds]

Okay well thats good to know then.

I was offered a male Parsonii the other day, they are really nice but really out of my budget.

Now the group of parsons we have in the country were smuggled. But since then no more have been smuggled and this was a good few years ago and from all those that were smuggled a good number are still alive today and Im happy to say there are 3 or 4 maybe even more with 1 or 2 clutches of fertile parsons eggs! Looks like no one will need to smuggle them in at all But lets just hope their eggs do make it all the way, so far everyones eggs are a couple months old and seem good.