Supplementing/Gutloading

[clumsyjellyfish]

Hi again y'all! As some of you guys may know, I'm getting a male panther cham in mid-late June. I've done a TON of research, but just need a little help with supplementing and gut loading. It is my understanding that for supplementing I dust the bugs in calcium without D3 every day and calcium with D3 twice a month. My only question is gut loading. What are some good brands of gut loading foods? Is it better to use commercial gut loading stuff or feed the bugs fruits/veggies? Thanks in advance?

 

[Theveiled]

You can use both. You can use bug burger or cricket crack. Those I think are the best. As for using veggies and fruits you can use oranges, carrots, my memory is bad right now as I am not by my crickets. There is a list at a blog I think it is much ado about chameleons that has great information. You can find information on this cite too in the information pages.

 

[clumsyjellyfish]

Thanks so much! I plan on gut loading with fruits/veggies with vitamin A so as to prevent a deficiency and/or MBD. I'll look into bug burger also!! The name cricket crack is actually really funny

 

[Virgil1972]

You also should use a multivitamin twice a month as well. What I do is Saturday I give the D3 then the next Saturday I give the vitamin then repeat. Use lots of leafy veggies for gut loading like kale.

 

[clumsyjellyfish]

Will do! Also, is the multivitamin like a powder that you dust the insects with or is it a literal solid chunk of vitamin like the ones humans take in the morning?

 

[Virgil1972]

Will do! Also, is the multivitamin like a powder that you dust the insects with or is it a literal solid chunk of vitamin like the ones humans take in the morning?

Powder I use National Geographic brand

 

[clumsyjellyfish]

Thanks so much!!

 

[Veild Cham Owner]

this is my dusting schedule which has been approved by my super awesome vet

Sunday - CALCIUM WITH D3
Monday - NONE
Tuesday - CALCIUM WITH D3
Wednesday - MULTIVITAMINS
Thursday - NONE
Friday - CALCIUM WITH D3
Saturday - NONE

you can gutload your crickets with just about any fruit or veggie i give mine
potato, carrots, apple, strawberry, clementine or orange, kale, romaine lettuce, broccoli, cucumber,

 

[clumsyjellyfish]

Thanks!

 

[KapitalJ]

this is my dusting schedule which has been approved by my super awesome vet

Sunday - CALCIUM WITH D3
Monday - NONE
Tuesday - CALCIUM WITH D3
Wednesday - MULTIVITAMINS
Thursday - NONE
Friday - CALCIUM WITH D3
Saturday - NONE

you can gutload your crickets with just about any fruit or veggie i give mine
potato, carrots, apple, strawberry, clementine or orange, kale, romaine lettuce, broccoli, cucumber,

Calcium with D3 should only be given 2 times a month. Same as the multivitamin.

 

[trickedoutbiker]

this is my dusting schedule which has been approved by my super awesome vet

Sunday - CALCIUM WITH D3
Monday - NONE
Tuesday - CALCIUM WITH D3
Wednesday - MULTIVITAMINS
Thursday - NONE
Friday - CALCIUM WITH D3
Saturday - NONE

you can gutload your crickets with just about any fruit or veggie i give mine
potato, carrots, apple, strawberry, clementine or orange, kale, romaine lettuce, broccoli, cucumber,

Regarding your gutload.... Check the link here right at Chameleon Forums under the RESOURCES tab and then under the FOOD & NUTRITION sub-tab: https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/food/

Now scroll all the way down on that link, about 3/4 of the way down the page, where it says "Avoid These Ingredients" ..... potatoes, romaine lettuce, and broccoli are on the list of things NOT to feed your insects. You feed those to your insects, and they provide almost no nutritional value, and are high in phosphorous. The list of "Suggested Ingredients" right above that is a great list to go by as far as good gutloading materials to use. Now, by no means am I going to preach to you here; do as you wish. I'm just letting you know what's up and giving you the information that apparently you've never seen. That same good/bad gutloading info can be found in many other places as well, as I found many lists on many sites when I did my own research before purchasing my chameleon, and I complied a list of things to feed and things not to feed your insects.

If you scroll just a bit further down on that same FOOD & NUTRITION page, you can see a bit of basic info about supplements, under where it says "Supplementation". I see by your profile pic where it shows you have a Veiled Chameleon..... you can also go to the tried-and-true caresheets section of the site here. Find Veiled Chameleons..... here, I will make it easy for you: https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/ ----- Now again, scroll down on this page all the way down where it says "Supplementation".

"Calcium and other vitamins are very important to your chameleon's health. Feeder insects should be lightly dusted with powdered supplement before being fed to your chameleon. Many keepers successfully use calcium (without D3 or phosphorus) at nearly every feeding, multivitamin once every 2 weeks, and calcium with D3 once every 2 weeks."

Calcium WITHOUT D3 should be given at almost every feeding. You are using calcium WITH D3, which should only be given twice a month. This prevents overdose on D3 and allows the chameleon to get the rest of the D3 (s)he needs from the UVB bulb(s). Your multivitamins should also only be used twice a month.

Exactly which vet are you going to? Have they worked with chameleons before other than yours?

 

[gotwqqd]

Regarding your gutload.... Check the link here right at Chameleon Forums under the RESOURCES tab and then under the FOOD & NUTRITION sub-tab: https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/food/

Now scroll all the way down on that link, about 3/4 of the way down the page, where it says "Avoid These Ingredients" ..... potatoes, romaine lettuce, and broccoli are on the list of things NOT to feed your insects. You feed those to your insects, and they provide almost no nutritional value, and are high in phosphorous. The list of "Suggested Ingredients" right above that is a great list to go by as far as good gutloading materials to use. Now, by no means am I going to preach to you here; do as you wish. I'm just letting you know what's up and giving you the information that apparently you've never seen. That same good/bad gutloading info can be found in many other places as well, as I found many lists on many sites when I did my own research before purchasing my chameleon, and I complied a list of things to feed and things not to feed your insects.

If you scroll just a bit further down on that same FOOD & NUTRITION page, you can see a bit of basic info about supplements, under where it says "Supplementation". I see by your profile pic where it shows you have a Veiled Chameleon..... you can also go to the tried-and-true caresheets section of the site here. Find Veiled Chameleons..... here, I will make it easy for you: https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/ ----- Now again, scroll down on this page all the way down where it says "Supplementation".

"Calcium and other vitamins are very important to your chameleon's health. Feeder insects should be lightly dusted with powdered supplement before being fed to your chameleon. Many keepers successfully use calcium (without D3 or phosphorus) at nearly every feeding, multivitamin once every 2 weeks, and calcium with D3 once every 2 weeks."

Calcium WITHOUT D3 should be given at almost every feeding. You are using calcium WITH D3, which should only be given twice a month. This prevents overdose on D3 and allows the chameleon to get the rest of the D3 (s)he needs from the UVB bulb(s). Your multivitamins should also only be used twice a month.

Exactly which vet are you going to? Have they worked with chameleons before other than yours?

I find people's belief about the regiment of supplements unfounded.
So many factors are not even given.
My veiled breeder(20+ years) dusts with d3 every day. So I think calling out the owner and his vet is a bit zealous.

 

[KapitalJ]

I find people's belief about the regiment of supplements unfounded.
So many factors are not even given.
My veiled breeder(20+ years) dusts with d3 every day. So I think calling out the owner and his vet is a bit zealous.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If you don't like the opinion don't take it. Easy...

Also, just because someone has "experience" doesn't mean there isn't room to grow / learn...

 

[Scout]

I can not believe that supplementation is STILL this hard for some people to grasp...

Taken right from this very forum......

 

[Goose502]

Supplementation seems to be a hot topic, and varies greatly on husbandry. This includes amount of natural sunlight vs artificial UVB, as well as temperature and hydration. I tend to follow the idea of calcium without D3 nearly every day, multivitamin/mineral 2-3 times a month. This works well, but correctly gut loading, and variety of feed is also extremely important. I try to offer 2-4 different feeders at all times. Some chameleons are picky, but in the wild they are opportunistic and will eat when hungry. Each specimen is unique, as long as the keeper is diligent and observant, the chameleon should do well.

 

[Veild Cham Owner]

I find people's belief about the regiment of supplements unfounded.
So many factors are not even given.
My veiled breeder(20+ years) dusts with d3 every day. So I think calling out the owner and his vet is a bit zealous.

yea thank you for saying that. Over loading your cham can be bad i know. I called my vet and we had an hour long chat abut how if you dust your crx with calcium and D3 2-3 days a week YOU CHAM WONT DIE!! i've had my cham for about 3 months now and he is perfectly healthy. I personally like it better this way bc i think its a little less confusing with the every other week sotathing.

 

[Carlton]

I would suggest that supplementing a cham with D3 every day for three months isn't an exhaustive test of the guidance this forum has been giving. Now if your vet or breeder showed proof that they have raised, bred, and successfully raised several generations of chams that lived to a good old age without skeletal and connective tissue problems using this schedule that would be easier to stand behind. This forum does see health problems from overuse of pre-formed vitamin D3.

 

[Veild Cham Owner]

I would suggest that supplementing a cham with D3 every day for three months isn't an exhaustive test of the guidance this forum has been giving. Now if your vet or breeder showed proof that they have raised, bred, and successfully raised several generations of chams that lived to a good old age without skeletal and connective tissue problems using this schedule that would be easier to stand behind. This forum does see health problems from overuse of pre-formed vitamin D3.

yes she has, she goes to zoos to check on their chams and they have the same dusting schedule as me and they have had chams since the zoo has opened. The chams they have their are about 5 years old.