Strange....

S

Shinybeetles

New Member
Can anyone who has had similar experience tell me either what I'm doing wrong OR what is happening?

My female Yemen is in very good health, she is about 18 months old now, has mated with a male about 3 months younger than her (and has done for a long time). She allows him to mate during certain periods (don't keep them together), she stays a light green and during the mating. After a few days of introductions and matings, she become unreceptive and turns almost black when I put them together again.

The problem is that she appears to get quite fat, but after a week or so has (pardon the language), what appears to be a 'Massive cr*p'. This is the strange bit, there appears to be lots of egg white (slimy liquid), white and yellow looking droppings and the normal large dark coloured droppings. She has never laid even one egg. Am I doing something wrong or is she just never going to. I must also point out that I give her good vit. suppliments and a good diet.

Can anyone help me!
 
Shinybeetles said:
Can anyone who has had similar experience tell me either what I'm doing wrong OR what is happening?

My female Yemen is in very good health, she is about 18 months old now, has mated with a male about 3 months younger than her (and has done for a long time). She allows him to mate during certain periods (don't keep them together), she stays a light green and during the mating. After a few days of introductions and matings, she become unreceptive and turns almost black when I put them together again.

The problem is that she appears to get quite fat, but after a week or so has (pardon the language), what appears to be a 'Massive cr*p'. This is the strange bit, there appears to be lots of egg white (slimy liquid), white and yellow looking droppings and the normal large dark coloured droppings. She has never laid even one egg. Am I doing something wrong or is she just never going to. I must also point out that I give her good vit. suppliments and a good diet.

Can anyone help me!
Click to expand...

My geuss would be not enough calcium from UVB lighting, and calcium dustings, seems to me like the eggs didnt calcify... Pictures would help... And please fill this out it will help us, help you..

Cage Info:

* Cage Type - Describe your cage construction (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
* Lighting - What brand, model, and type of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
* Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
* Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
* Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
* Location - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
* Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
* Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
* Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
* Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
* Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
* History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
* Current Problem - The current problem that you are concerned about.

-Levi
 
NewOwner said:
My geuss would be not enough calcium from UVB lighting, and calcium dustings, seems to me like the eggs didnt calcify... Pictures would help... And please fill this out it will help us, help you..

Cage Info:

* Cage Type - Describe your cage construction (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
* Lighting - What brand, model, and type of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
* Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
* Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
* Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
* Location - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
* Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
* Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
* Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
* Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
* Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
* History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
* Current Problem - The current problem that you are concerned about.

-Levi
Click to expand...

* Cage Type - Describe your cage construction (Glass and screen areas, though that’s never been a problem, very well ventilated and no stress or reaction), Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? 2ftx2ftx3ft
* Lighting – 30% UVA output (now, must admit I had a 10% before) exo terra What brand, model, and type of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
* Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Heat spot 60w bulb (room never gets cold)
* Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? Low humidity, I spray twice a day but the enclosure is very well ventilated
* Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Ficus only
* Location - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? 3ft hight from floor


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?female 18 months
* Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? rarely
* Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? Gutloaded crickets, beetle larvae now and again, dusted with full vitamin powder - UK best, every day (one a day). What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
* Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?dust every day with a good powder
* Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? Spray twice a day
* Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? Droppings usually mixture of brown cylinders sometimes with white and yellow.
* History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
* Current Problem - The current problem that you are concerned about. As stated above

I have to admit, I recently changed the bulb after advice as it was only a 10%UVB out put. Do you think she is gravid now (from the picture?) She has done this a few times before but only for a few days then returned to normal colour..
 

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Shinybeetles said:
* Cage Type - Describe your cage construction (Glass and screen areas, though that’s never been a problem, very well ventilated and no stress or reaction), Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? 2ftx2ftx3ft
* Lighting – 30% UVA output (now, must admit I had a 10% before) exo terra What brand, model, and type of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
* Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Heat spot 60w bulb (room never gets cold)
* Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? Low humidity, I spray twice a day but the enclosure is very well ventilated
* Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Ficus only
* Location - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? 3ft hight from floor


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?female 18 months
* Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? rarely
* Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? Gutloaded crickets, beetle larvae now and again, dusted with full vitamin powder - UK best, every day (one a day). What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
* Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?dust every day with a good powder
* Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? Spray twice a day
* Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? Droppings usually mixture of brown cylinders sometimes with white and yellow.
* History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
* Current Problem - The current problem that you are concerned about. As stated above

I have to admit, I recently changed the bulb after advice as it was only a 10%UVB out put. Do you think she is gravid now (from the picture?) She has done this a few times before but only for a few days then returned to normal colour..
Click to expand...

there is 3 differant types of dust yoour supposed to use, calcium, multivitamin, and some other one i forget the name i will go look at it one sec...
 
here is one guys schedule, i still think they werent calcified...




MTh-Herptivite
TF-Calcium (w/o d3)
WS-Minerall (no d3)
Sunday-None
1x month Reptivite (w/ d3)
1x month Repcal (w/d3)
 
30% UV?? Check the bulb, I'm not certain that is possible, the highest UV i've seen is 12%

Also, could specify the brand of multivit?? As the other reply states, it is often best to use a calcium only and a multivit interchangeably.
 
vetdebbie said:
30% UV?? Check the bulb, I'm not certain that is possible, the highest UV i've seen is 12%

Also, could specify the brand of multivit?? As the other reply states, it is often best to use a calcium only and a multivit interchangeably.
Click to expand...

Ahh, yes, checked the bulb it says 30w 10.0 is that right? I was told it was for sun loving reptiles that need the most UV out-put.

Horror, I've been using a vitamin dust for Vegetarian reptiles too! I took the advice of a petshop so didn't read the label (I know how bad that sounds)...

Anyway, just ordered this:

http://www.livefoods.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=72&products_id=111

and this:

http://www.livefoods.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=72&products_id=104

Should this do the trick? She has been gravid for a few days now, if I really concentrate on the calcium should that work? I hope it's not too late again?
 
Exposure to UVB light either from a linear long tube light or sunlight allows the chameleon to produce vitamin D3 which allows it to use the calcium in its system. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic.

Appropriate temperatures aid in proper digestion and thus play a part in nutrient absorption.

Most feeder insects we use have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorous so I dust at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to make up for it.

I also dust twice a month with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene source of vitamin A. Beta carotene can't build up in the system like preformed sources of vitamin A can/do. Beta carotene has to be converted by the body to vitamin A while preformed sources (acetate, palminate, "meat") are already to go. Excess preformed vitamin A can prevent the D3 from doing its job and lead to MBD.

I also dust with a phos.-free calicum/D3 powder twice a month. D3 from supplements can build up in the system so don't overdo it.

Gutloading and feeding the insects a nutritious diet is also important. I feed my crickets a wide assortment of greens (dandelion, endive, kale, escarole, collards, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrot, squash, zucchini, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, celery leaves, etc.)

Phos., calcium, D3 and vitamin A are all big players in bone health and other things in the body and need to be in balance. When trying to balance them you need to look at what you feed to the chameleon, what you feed to the insects and what supplements you use.

As for your female not laying eggs...it could be a lack of calcium or it could be a problem with the shelling gland....or a number of other things. I'm not a vet and can only speculate from what I have already learned. I have only heard of this happening rarely. It might be a good idea to talk to a vet about this....especially if your husbandry is bang on.
 
Hi K,

I don't think my husbandry could be considered 'bang on' sadly but I'm learning. I think the problem is that which was mentioned earlier, the eggs aren't calcifying through a lack of the correct vitamins (though I could be wrong). I have just ordered the vitamins (see the links above in my previous message). My problem is I can't really see what I'm ordering and am just going by what the advert says. My female is gravid now but hasn't had the right powder at all (though I would think that she must have got something from the powder I'm using even if it isn't the right one). She's been gravid for about 4 days, do you think if I start giving the correct supplements from now on she should produce eggs? Or is it too late this time?
 
Have you provided a place for her to lay the eggs? and in any case she isn't getting enough calcium from what i can tell
 
In the picture I see no signs of calcium deficiency...so it seems odd to me that she is having calcium issues regarding the egglaying. I would think it would be showing up in her physical condition. Like I said, I'm not a vet so this is just my thoughts on the subject.

What brand of vitamins are you ordering?? What brand and type of supplements have you been giving her already?? What have you been feeding/gutloading the insects with?
 
Good luck!

She looks like she is ready to pop with eggs.

do you have a place for her to lay? and why do you keep introducing the female to the male? Her coloring in the pic you showed is her unreceptive coloring and it means she is gravid.

You should find yourself a 5 gallon bucket and fill it with a mix of peet moss and sand. It should be moist and hold its form if you make a hole in the dirt. Fill it so there is a 6" lip around the rim.. this way she can't get out. place her in the bucket and hang a heat lamp above her. Do not allow her to see anyone or anything moving. If she sees people or cats or dogs or movement she'll cover her hole and leave it. If she starts and stops too often she'll get tired and not dig a proper hole.

Figure out the supplements but work on getting her a place to lay asap.
 
She has exactly the egg laying place you mentioned already set up. I only introduce the male to her once when I see her colors turn unreceptive, I haven't introduced him since.

The problem is she has done this before, got really fat, only to poo out everything (it doesn't come out looking like eggs, it looks like dried cyclinders of yellow egg yolk and large amount of slimy egg white). Though this time I have increased the UVB and given her lots of dust (even though it was the wrong dust - just buying the right stuff now online).

I can't actually feel any eggs inside her, should you be able to feel or see them (with a very gentle touch?)??
 
kinyonga said:
Is this the reptivite you are using??...
http://exoticwings.com/shoppe/product_info.php?products_id=2579

Did the male ever bite and hold onto the female's side while mating?
Do you have a picture of what came out of her?
Click to expand...

Yes as far as I can tell this is the same vit powder that I have just ordered, is this a good one? (the label is slightly different but it's 'zoo-med' and 'reptavite'.

The male did some head-butting and I saw him actually 'connect' with the female in the right place, they were together for about 30 minutes on the floor of the enclosure.

RE the eggy stuff, if it happens again I'll photograph it and post it here.

So even though I can't feel eggs, she is very big, could they be still forming?
 
Shinybeetles said:
Yes as far as I can tell this is the same vit powder that I have just ordered, is this a good one? (the label is slightly different but it's 'zoo-med' and 'reptavite'.

The male did some head-butting and I saw him actually 'connect' with the female in the right place, they were together for about 30 minutes on the floor of the enclosure.

RE the eggy stuff, if it happens again I'll photograph it and post it here.

So even though I can't feel eggs, she is very big, could they be still forming?
Click to expand...

How long ago was the last mating?

What kind of UVB lamp are you using?
 
They mated for about 15 minutes I think, I went off and he was still on her when I got back. I'm using the exo terra UV bulbs, the strongest reptile ones you can buy in the reptile stores...don't know if you know the exo terra range, I'm in the UK. The bulb is 30w 10.0
 
If it is any consolation, I couldn't feel the eggs in my female 2 days before she laid 54 eggs! I could see the little lumps, especially when she turned her body. I hope she is successful this time, but if not, you have good information to help her with her calcium.
 
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