Something odd around the mouth

[Cyaneye]

Hello everybody. I stumbled across this forum hours after I got a female panther chameleon for my birthday. I found several of your threads most helpful.

However now, Gracie's mouth is all odd and such. My research points to probably a mouth infection, but I thought I'd let the experts see it.

She isn't really eating much, though this is more than likely a hunger strike for me to get a new insect for her to eat. [I offered her a butterworm last night and she took it without a problem]

Here is a photo of what I am talking about. What do you guys think?

 

[camimom]

I think she has mouth rot.. vet visit time. Sorry. and welcome!

 

[Cyaneye]

That was fast, and duly noted. We'll take her to the vet when we get the chance. More importantly though, is how I can avoid this happening again - what causes mouth rot?

Also, another question: is it normal for a chameleon to grab their own legs when walking? Mine occasionally does that and is dumbfounded as to why she can't move.

 

[jannb]

Welcome to the forums. That pretty little girl's mouth looks bad.

Carlton just answered this question here: https://www.chameleonforums.com/what-cause-mouth-rot-72520/

I would get her to the vets as soon as possible so that doesn't spread. Do you have a good chameleon vet in your area? Here's some vets recommended by forum members here. https://www.chameleonforums.com/area-area-country-vet-list-32880/

Grabbing the legs is a sign of MBD. Would you please fill out the ask for help form for us. https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/

 

[Cyaneye]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Female Panther Chameleon, been under my care since the beggining of September

Handling - Once or twice a week, typically to move her to a less precaroius spot in the cage....is this taboo?

Feeding - I have a colony of crickets fed commercially prepared gutload gel cubes, though occasionally I give the crickets lettuce. I also have a few butterworms in the fridge. I offer food every day, though sometimes she refuses

Supplements - Heavy dusting of Rep-cal brand vitamin powder; "Herptivite multivitamin" and "calcium with vit.D3" every few days

Watering - A water dripper set to drip on leaves. I rarely see her drink because I'm at school.

Fecal Description - smaller-than-normal shiny deffication with white [hydrated] urine...thing. Never checked for parasites

History - Occasionally grabs her own leg when moving. She will eventually correct herself, but more often than not I'm the one doing the correcting (gently, of course)


Cage Info:
Cage Type - Screen cage, 16in x 16in x 30 in

Lighting -250volt, 660watt, on from 6:30 am to about 9:00pm

Temperature - About 80 degrees (not direct light). A heating lamp (no light) is always on at night. Sometimes we use the woodstove in the room to boost the tamperature. There is a thermometer in the cage.

Humidity - Unknown - occasionally misting the enclosure.

Plants - Yes, a pair of geraniums - chameleon-safe plants (I checked)

Placement -In living room. No vents, but the woodstove may create convection currents. Near windows, cage sitting on a table, so the top of the cage is about my eye level

Location - Vermont - Northeastern United states


Do you really think she might have MBD? Her legs are pretty straight, taking into account her muscle shapes

 

[JackP308]

Females seem particularly more touchy to supplements I have found in my keeping them.

You need a Calcium without D3 . That is what you should be using more often then the rest.

Along with your Multi Vitamin sparingly and Calcium w D3 occasionally as well.


Can you explain your lighting better.

You need a UVB light very important recommend 5.0 rating , and a basking light. Standard house bulbs work well for basking inside the Dome Fixtures. Also I don't think you need to run the lights 14.5 hrs. Id cut it back to 11 or so in the winter is what I do. Most keep them on a 12 hr schedule though. Timer is good cheap investment if you don't already have one.





If she does have MBD it can be easily corrected as she don't look in bad shape, but I would def get the mouth rot treated ASAP.

 

[Thezillaman21]

Ok you need a UVB light 5.0

They need that to aid in food processing and calcium absorbtion. Point is you need it and without getting it soon your chameleon will keep getting worst and eventually die... So make sure u get UVB.

 

[Elizadolots]

Do you really think she might have MBD? Her legs are pretty straight, taking into account her muscle shapes

Historically, on this board, grabbing their own legs has been an early symptom of MBD. If you can get the problem corrected now, you might be able to avoid the more serious, irreparable symptoms of MBD.

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."We'll take her to the vet when we get the chance. More importantly though, is how I can avoid this happening again - what causes mouth rot?"...it needs to be treated ASAP since mouth rot can progress rapidly if left untreated. Also, the usual bacteria responsible for it is difficult to get rid of...so the faster you get it done the better.

You said..."Also, another question: is it normal for a chameleon to grab their own legs when walking? Mine occasionally does that and is dumbfounded as to why she can't move"...as has been said, this can be a sign of MBD. You will want to get the imbalance responsible for this corrected and then use proper husbandry to keep it from returning.

If the cage is near a window, I would recommend that you move it. Your chameleon could get a draft and it might become sick as a result of it.

Here's some information I hope will help you ....
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

A wide variety of insects that have been well fed and gutloaded should be fed to it.

Since many of the feeder insects we use in captivity have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium).

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.
Please note that various supplements have various amounts of D3 and vitamin A and so some can be given more often than others. The idea still is not to overdo the fat soluble vitamins like D3 and prEformed vitamin A.

Here are some good sites for you to read too...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.

 

[Cyaneye]

Hello. I was unfortunatly away for a week and without internet, so I left Gracie in with the care of my parents and I couldn't say anything here.

I'm afraid she isn't doing too well. We've been giving her medicine to treat the mouth rot, and it seems to be a little better, but Gracie has grown weak and I fear she may be dehydrated (lethargic, sunken eyes). I'm doing all that I can to see that she gets daily water, medicine, and food.

I'm losing hope, but am willing to hold out and see if she does pull through.


Now to answer your questions:

-I went to the vet the day after you said I should and got the medicine.
-The cage is near a window, but we never open the said windows in our house. If we must there is a spot in the next room over where we can potentially move the cage.
-I am unsure of whether the bulb that I have has UVB. It only now occurs to me that I checked the light shell and not the bulb itself.
-It is very difficult to get her to eat anything. Lately all she has had were a few butterworms. We've tried to get her to eat gutloaded crickets with little success.
-She often sits in one place with a dark coloration and at least one eye closed.
-The reason I run the lights so long is because I switch them on before school and switch it off when I head up for bed (or about 9:00 or so)


Believe me, I really am trying very hard to care for her. I'll also try to be more active in the future for more assistance. Thank you all for your help so far - it's been invaluable.