Some Thoughts On Breeding

[philanddeb818]

Philanddeb's thoughts

We realize the love we have for these animals (Panther Chameleon) is a great one. We enjoy every moment with them. We know others share in this amazing adventure into what was once a Jurassic experience that has somehow survived and continued into the twenty-first century.

Phil and I have begun our retirement project. We are going to raise and breed captives and keep them true to their origins. In saying this, we understand there are plenty of morphs being sold, and they are truly beautiful…but in truth, with the landscape closing in on the species we are currently interested in saving those true to their natural origin, there isn’t much time…

We hope to learn enough to make the pure breads important enough to those who will make a difference after we are gone. I dread to think that soon enough, there will be no more wild caught. And it’s up to those of us who recognize the cost of human propriety to the Chameleon wildlife's natural inheritance, to make sure this animal is kept safe from extinction. And yes, this is a heavy yet awesome burdon.

We would have never begun creating a colony if we didn't think we could afford the cost of each in the colony being in need of special attention. If we didn't think we could afford to keep each healthy, we would never have ventured to become a breeder of this amazing chameleon breed. (Furcifer Pardalis). Each is important. So important, that our veterinarian is on call.

It seems our world is becoming small in terms of human beings growing at exponential rates and predicating unintentionally upon our nature’s realm. Chameleons are a most predicated culture. It’s up to us to save them. If we find a way, it will only be through our love and efforts to support native land reserves.

Our hope is for each of these exquisite creatures to find home where they can move forward in their plight to repopulate. Please keep Phil and me in mind in the next couple of years when you are ready to begin your own breeding colony.

Thank you to all on Chameleon Forums for your advice, your kindness and continued support.

Love to you all,

Cheers,
PhilandDeb818

 

[dirrtybirdy]

WOW! there is alot of important issues in this thread!

I'm thinking about breeding my purple bar ambanja male to a female sometime next year. I'm fairly new to the chameleon game, but this site has helped me out a lot. The reason I want to breed my male is because I am in search of the perfect chameleon. I'm not interested in selling them to make a profit.

I started off with pygmies, then a female ambilobe and now a male purple bar ambanja. I guess you can say that I want to make the trophy chameleon. I used to breed betta fish and that took a lot of hard work to raise the fry.

Thank you everyone who have gave good input in this thread.

 

[Dwinger]

exactly how many pinheads do babies eat per day?

 

[OldSkoolxReasons]

as many as you let them! lol. I've seen the "bully big brother" panther in a clutch of 2 week olds eat 27 in one day. He had to be removed and food intake was monitored after.

 

[Dyesub Dave]

exactly how many pinheads do babies eat per day?

That's quite a change from the topic at hand here.

I'm now more into breeding geckos than chams. And after reading through this post again I would like to offer some further thoughts. While I'm not really a BUSINESS or REPTILE STORE at the moment I am selling geckos online and thought about how to make money and do what I like at the same time.

I've come to the conclusion the I'm NOT going to make much money if anything on the animals themselves. If you look at a regular pet store their profits are NOT in the animals they sell but in everything else that the animals need. So if I decide to start a REPTILE ONLY storefront then I need to have all the supplies that go with said animals. I need to make what I do a specialty and offer everything that is needed for these reptiles in one location. This way my customers aren't shopping at several different stores to find what they need.

The animals get them in the door and the supplies and service keep them coming back. That's my take on it anyways. Now I just need to cash to see if it works! LOL

Dyesub Dave.

 

[Chamster]

i think i can add to that but it aint chams......they snakes.......i tried breeding 4 kingsnakes 2 times already and the eggs were all infertile...my heart got broken TWICE because i put my heart and soul in this project... as well as a lot of money for buying an incubator...plastic container for hibernating the snakes, the special vermiculite, the fat rats that i fed them every week and my SOUL.. an 8 month process gone to waste and left me with disappointment and disgrace.. BUT i will not give up...all these broken sorrows only provide me with fuel and empower me to come back stronger with even more ambition and freedom...i will not give up.....i will ONE day be called "kingsnake breeder who DID succeed". that day is only a dream, that day is only a wish to be fulfilled, that day will be theeeeee day that the small kings look at me with their tiny hungry eyes when they take their first breath. i will belong to the nation of which reptiles roam free, a nation that only accepts true warriors. warriors that seize true passion. until that day...i will try to embrace my time to find the appropriate skills to be part of a ReptileNation.

THE END.

 

[Bobby12]

Wish me luck

I have always had reptiles growing up; chaemeleons, snakes, frogs, turtles- you name it i had it. It was always i hobby i enjoyed with my father and uncles. Although my collecting always had an amatuer approach i was able to have Jackson and veiled babies but not being able to keep them alive past a month or so. I am older and on a whim my father bought us two captive pairs of panthers chameleons- (Ambilobe, Sambava). I live in Manhattan now and my parents are still in the suburbs but i find time to take care of them on the weekend and my father does all the work during the week. My main goal is to breed them but i make my self crazy trying to make sure i have the optimal conditions. My Ambilobe female is 13 months old, gravid and should be laying eggs any day now (its been 30 days since conception). My Sambavas are a few months from maturity. My main reason for trying to breed them is to see if i can do it - i am just hoping it isnt as hard to do as it seems. i am not in this to make a profit although i would liek to sell the juvinells if i get them to hatch because i dotn want to be overwehlmed with chams. I was wondering if any successful breeders have any advice so i am not taken by surpirse at any step of the process? Thanks for listening

 

[pssh]

Get your wallet ready and be prepared to be there to feed the babies three times a day. Time and money are going to seem to just be eaten by the babies.

 

[Bobby12]

I wrok for a profitable hedge fund, im not worried about the money - i just want to hatch healthy chameleons. per chameleon how many pinheads and fruit flies should i have per day?

 

[xanthoman]

ff qty?

i honestly have no idea as to how many ffs would be required for panthers but it will be a lot, just as a reference, i hatched about 15 jacksons last spring, and it took three heavily producing cultures D.Hydei spaced a couple of days apart to barely keep up. remember thats for just 15 neonates, using hydei. i would expect that # would probably need to be ( at least) doubled for panthers. i wouldnt even bother with melongasters, i would go straight to hydei. (petco flies are always melongasters and usually have mites, most ff cultures have mites to some degree, there is a hydei seller on ebay that guarantees his cultures 100% mite free) also it will depend on your cage size and feeding methods plus rate of escape. it will be interesting to see what actual panther breeders will recomend. jmo

 

[Matt1851]

Baby Chameleona

Hey i was actually just wondering if baby chameleons are harder to take care of that medium to full grown chameleons. I just bought a 1 and a half month old chameleon and hes doing really good and my girlfriend has a 4 month old chameleon who is really healthy and i guess i was just wondering if its going to take extra work untill he gets that age?

 

[jrh3]

Yeah and no to me its about the same. You can make money if you dont depend on it as an income. But you have to cut cost by raising feeders, building setups, and have more than a clutch here and there. BUT DONT DEPEND ON IT. There are drawbacks

 

[Texas Panther Man]

From my experience its just as Brad stated earlier. An endeavor that should be considered long and hard about before you take that step. I started w one cham in 1995. A male veiled, by 1996 we had a pair of veileds. By the end of '96 I had a pair of ambanjas and a pair of jacksonni. After 2 clutches of veileds and 2 clutches of panthers in a six month span i was burned out. I felt i had two full time jobs. Just keeping up with feeders and cleanups and misting schedules for neonates. Then you have to sell these babies you have sweated over for a year by the time u breed, lay, hatch, grow to saleable age. Then someone trys to jew you down on a fair price. Or they want to buy a related pair to breed them. grr

 

[Leilaskeeper]

From my experience its just as Brad stated earlier. An endeavor that should be considered long and hard about before you take that step. I started w one cham in 1995. A male veiled, by 1996 we had a pair of veileds. By the end of '96 I had a pair of ambanjas and a pair of jacksonni. After 2 clutches of veileds and 2 clutches of panthers in a six month span i was burned out. I felt i had two full time jobs. Just keeping up with feeders and cleanups and misting schedules for neonates. Then you have to sell these babies you have sweated over for a year by the time u breed, lay, hatch, grow to saleable age. Then someone trys to jew you down on a fair price. Or they want to buy a related pair to breed them. grr

"Jew you down" ... LOL

I'm lucky in the sense that I get free feeders and cheap prices for terrariums and accessories. If I didn't have those connections, I probably wouldn't take on breeding. It is VERY costly and time consuming. Mind you, I'm still learning but I have done great so far. I'm looking to breed my female veiled. Anyone have any males for sale? I can't seem to find any males except for babies and I'm not having a 4 month old do the head bobbing at my girl. She needs an adult. lol

 

[Texas Panther Man]

Sorry i think the largest male veiled ive seen for sale were at LLL and they were sub adults i think. Tiki Tiki has some swesome looking male breeders. Crush, is one of them they are both very stunning. Good luck finding a male.

 

[Leilaskeeper]

Sorry i think the largest male veiled ive seen for sale were at LLL and they were sub adults i think. Tiki Tiki has some swesome looking male breeders. Crush, is one of them they are both very stunning. Good luck finding a male.

Thanks for the info! I'll look into that
I know Cham Nation had some babies but a little too young for my girl. The quest continues .......

 

[Psi]

Thanks for the info! I'll look into that
I know Cham Nation had some babies but a little too young for my girl. The quest continues .......

I know that close by to me at Terra Nursery's(milton location) they have a full grown male Veiled.
It was from Drew's collection at one of the shows last year.
I think it was 89.99 iirc.

Hope that helps.

Also any of those sites he recommended you would need CITES paperwork to bring them across the boarder (not worth it for 1 male).

 

[Texas Panther Man]

u r right sorry i didnt look to see u were from the great white north. lol no wonder your having troubles finding a adult male.

 

[coganchams]

Well said! For me, breeding chameleons is about loving the animals and creating beautiful creatures – definitely not about the money. I started breeding chameleons to share the experience with my son who was 8 years old and struggling. He is adopted so we decided to “adopt” chameleons as well. Now going on 11, my son loves watching the chameleons grow and checks out their colors every day. He knows each offspring individually and constantly changes his mind about which ones are the prettiest or most unique. He names them after their colors so we now have a “red”, “blue”, “yellow” and a “rose”. He kept a female he loves named “stump” who accidentally got her tail caught in the screen door when she was a hatchling. We attend the local shows together and he proudly tells people all about his chameleons. So far, we have spent over twice as much as we have collected, but it has been worth it!

 

[Leilaskeeper]

I know that close by to me at Terra Nursery's(milton location) they have a full grown male Veiled.
It was from Drew's collection at one of the shows last year.
I think it was 89.99 iirc.

Hope that helps.

Also any of those sites he recommended you would need CITES paperwork to bring them across the boarder (not worth it for 1 male).

Thanks!! I'll take a look into that