So I have a URI to deal with :(

[JCDenton]

It was just confirmed that my 3.5 month old panther that arrived Tuesday came down with a URI during shipping. I like him a lot and I want to do what is best for him. I can either send him back for a refund or treat him, with an extended guarantee should things go badly. I'm leaning towards treatment since I don't think he'll take well to being shipped again and we like him a lot. Need your thoughts on if he is better off with a well-read chameleon noob, or with a chameleon expert but with the stress of additional shipping.

So I've got some questions:

1. Could this be spread to my other chameleon? Their cages are close together but most of the screen is covered with a divider. I looked around for a while but I can't find anything on if this is contagious.

2. Baytril or Fortraz?

3. How do I know what do do with humidity? I see a lot of contradictory info around. Some says I need to dry him out, barely misting at all, and let him drink from a dripper. Other info indicates that I should jack up the humidity, maybe even give him a shower, since it helps mucus flow. I am aware that I need to keep a drugged chameleon hydrated well once I start treating him.

4. How hard is this going to be for me to treat? I've never medicated a reptile before. I'm not going to blow a dosage amount or anything like that, but I'm not a master of syringe technique either.

Here's a vid I took:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENlZWySFRzM

In the first part you can hear the tell-tale popping noise when he sticks out his tongue. Usually he makes that noise during labored breathing when his throat puffs out and then goes in. The second part you can see the labored breathing he sometimes does. Ignore the sound though, I was trying to film on tiptoes and my mouth was right next to the mic.

He is eating and drinking, although eating less than I'd expect for as big as he is. His husbandry and enclosure are all very standard and in line with forum recommendations, I just need advice on those four questions I posed.

He was popping right out of the box, but I and the breeder both thought he was stressed (or just mad) and decided to give him some time to acclimate first. It was a bad shipment for him since it arrived at the UPS center later than it should have and he also started a shed while being shipped. So this started the morning of 8/24 (or sometime in the middle of the preceding night), and the breeder had no problems at all with him, so it's only a few days old. I haven't seen any bubbles but he pops with moderate frequency.

 

[kinyonga]

If you are quarantining the new one in a different room, then I wouldn't think it would spread very easily as long as you look after the other chameleons first and then the one with the URI and follow good hygiene.

A vet can tell you what medication/dosage to use and that way give you other advise about how to help the chameleon get rid of it.

 

[JCDenton]

I don't have any choice but to keep the cages next to each other. I've only got one room to put them in because of cats, and there isn't a way I could rearrange it. I also only have individual lights for one cage. When I got the second chameleon I went to a 48 inch strip. If he needs to be quarantined I may need to send him back.

What terrible luck. I just wanted one healthy male panther. The first one I bought was revealed to be a girl after I was too attached to return her, and now this with the second.

 

[beeze]

All new chams should be quarantined, you never know what they've got until you get that fecal. https://www.chameleonforums.com/quarantine-those-show-animals-15636/

The vet should be able to a culture to find out exactly what type of URI he has to know the proper medication to treat with.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/back-vet-medication-questions-39302/

 

[Chameleon Company]

I don't have any choice but to keep the cages next to each other. I've only got one room to put them in because of cats, and there isn't a way I could rearrange it. I also only have individual lights for one cage. When I got the second chameleon I went to a 48 inch strip. If he needs to be quarantined I may need to send him back.

What terrible luck. I just wanted one healthy male panther. The first one I bought was revealed to be a girl after I was too attached to return her, and now this with the second.

If the URI is determined on a Thursday, I suspect it started before being shipped overnight Monday-Tuesday.

 

[Warrix642]

Edit.........

 

[jastate09]

If the URI is determined on a Thursday, I suspect it started before being shipped overnight Monday-Tuesday.

I totally agree. Sorry about your bad luck with chameleons so far.

 

[PedroANDAshley]

Im also dealing with a URI with my pepper.

1. Could this be spread to my other chameleon? Their cages are close together but most of the screen is covered with a divider. I looked around for a while but I can't find anything on if this is contagious.
YES, IT IS CONTAGIOUS. Please please separate them, my pepper caught it from the URI fuego had when fuego was first brought home. I would move it to a different room completely just to be safe. Dealing with one URI is a pain, dealing with multiple....ha lettme tell ya, is excruciating.

2. Baytril or Fortraz?
I would try repaid, which is what I use for the URIs and both chams are getting better and on the road of recovery. I know baytril is hard on a chameleons body, not sure about the other.

3. How do I know what do do with humidity? I see a lot of contradictory info around. Some says I need to dry him out, barely misting at all, and let him drink from a dripper. Other info indicates that I should jack up the humidity, maybe even give him a shower, since it helps mucus flow. I am aware that I need to keep a drugged chameleon hydrated well once I start treating him.
You need to up temps SLIGHTLY and also make it warm and more humid than normal, this will help him breath better. A WARM mist humidifier would work best. You should only do this during the hard days because as he gets better the added humidity could make it worse again.

4. How hard is this going to be for me to treat? I've never medicated a reptile before. I'm not going to blow a dosage amount or anything like that, but I'm not a master of syringe technique either.
Its depends on the reptiles personality. With Fuego I could just have her lick like two diluted drops of the end of the needless syringe with no problem. With pepper I have to GENTLY hold her body in a SOFT cloth and have just her head poking out and administer it that way. Also depending on how bad this gets dont expect it to go away any time soon. some times it takes up to a good month to 2 months untill its 100% gone and make sure IT IS 100% gone because they tend to come back if not squashed 100% away.

 

[JCDenton]

If the URI is determined on a Thursday, I suspect it started before being shipped overnight Monday-Tuesday.

This is definitely the case then. The info was there to determine it tuesday but the breeder suggested I wait a bit before worrying and give him some time to get acclimated/hydrated.

It looks like he noticeably worsened overnight. Now I can see excess mucus and a few bubbles when he gapes. I can't delay on this, I need to make a quick decision of whether to ship him back overnight with Sat. delivery or take him to the vet.

FML...

 

[Psi]

I can't delay on this, I need to make a quick decision of whether to ship him back overnight with Sat. delivery or take him to the vet.

FML...

I don't think there is a decision here.
It would have been back in the box sending back to the breeder the following day you bought it.

Unless you asked for a challenge when buying it, you should expect a perfectly healthy animal to your door.

 

[Chameleon Company]

This is definitely the case then. The info was there to determine it tuesday but the breeder suggested I wait a bit before worrying and give him some time to get acclimated/hydrated.

It looks like he noticeably worsened overnight. Now I can see excess mucus and a few bubbles when he gapes. I can't delay on this, I need to make a quick decision of whether to ship him back overnight with Sat. delivery or take him to the vet.

FML...

No doubt you have a sick animal. But I want to take this opportunity to suggest an alternate malady besides URI, although its effects and treatment are near the same.

An upper esophageal infection, usually introduced by eating contaminated bugs, especially crickets. This has its roots in septic conditions where the crickets are raised, usually with water sources not cleaned and changed regularly. A high bacteria build-up occurs, which then uptake to the crickets, which can handle it. Sometimes it occurs right in the chameleon's cage, with such as a water dish under a plant that always has standing water in it. It only takes 3-5 days to get pretty much like biological stew.

Once these bugs are chomped in the chameleon's mouth, very high levels of otherwise common bacteria are introduced. Within 5-10 days, they have well infected things, creating a mucous build-up, which becomes pretty obvious. When heavy enough, it will crust on the lip edges. It spreads down the throat, to the lungs. Treated pretty much like a URI.

Most crickets bought from cricket suppliers are contaminated on arrival, as most cricket breeders do not change out their water supplies, such as a large inverted sponge-bottom water bottles, but once a week. It doesn't effect the crickets much, but they need to be away from the contamination for 2-3 days to clean out. Unfortunately, some chameleon breeders and hobbyists who raise their own bugs also do not keep up with this aspect of hygiene.

It is our opinion that this type of infection is more prevelent than a cold-temp induced URI, although it ends up pretty much like one. It will kill your animal, or put it beyond the point of no return, within 2-4 weeks of it becoming obvious. i.e. mucous and labored breating. Once the infection is established, it will not go away on its own.

Those that know our regimen here know that the single biggest regular chore is changing out the cricket water bottles every two days. We learned the hard way many years ago.

Good luck.

 

[PedroANDAshley]

You should send him back.
A URI is nothing fun to deal with trust me :/
An since you cant move your cages your putting the other chams in danger.

 

[jannb]

I so hate to hear this. I am afraid that if you send him back that he might not make it. Maybe you can treat him NOW at the seller's expense???

 

[bridgofaith]

You have 2 options: send him back to the breeder or treat him yourself. You won't be able to ship him back until at least Monday. There are several things you can try in the meantime that may help.

1) slightly raise the temps in the cage
2) add a warm mist humidifier to the cage
3) get him outside for sun

Without taking him to the vet and having a culture and sensitivity test performed, treating with antibiotics can be a shot in the dark. You need to know what the infection is susceptible to and will respond to. With the extended guarantee from the seller, I would treat him.

 

[JCDenton]

I am going to send him back. I can have him delivered saturday by paying extra. I think both choices are awful, this one just a bit less.

To do a long-term quarantine, I'd need extra lights/timers/misting system since I don't trust myself to do them diligently by hand for an extended period of time. I don't mind putting in work, it's just sticking to an exact routine I'm bad at. My first cham showed me that they really love complete consistency from day to day and I wouldn't want to give a sick one anything less.

I'd also have to keep my cats locked in one room for the duration of it. Then there is the problem that I keep most of this place in the 60's daytime since I really like it cool, with a warm room upstairs for the chams (vents shut to keep drafts away and humidity higher), but if I move this guy downstairs I'm gonna have to keep the whole place 10 degrees hotter than I like.

Then after all that I'd have a cham that could flare back up at anytime and is probably more prone to future infection, or even kidney failure from the meds. If he had become infected in my care, I'd just have to do all that stuff, it wouldn't be up for debate since there wouldn't be any other choice.
---------------------------------------------
Thank you all for your advice, and thank you Jim for that information. I was not aware of that and it may well prevent me from dealing with that illness in the future. So if I understand correctly, crickets I get from ghann's or lllreptile would need to be set aside for a couple days before feeding?

Lastly, I would greatly appreciate suggestions on cleaning my cages. I still want a male panther chameleon no matter how many tries it takes, so I need to make sure that this "contaminated" cage/supplies are safe and decide what needs to be tossed. And I also want to give my girl's cage a good clean just in case.

 

[Chameleon Company]

The situation that I spoke of, esophageal infections, are not contagious, and require contaminated bugs to infect the chameleon. What is important in managing it, if the source were in your husbandry system (it is not in this case), it to eliminate the source before it infects other chameleons via insects. You would have to treat all infected animals, but it will not spread without contaminated bugs, or a continual source of contamination to create new "poison pill" insects.

It is our opinion that all purchased crickets should be in your care for 2-3 days, without any contamination source as described, for 2-3 days before you use them as feeders.

Good luck.