Small bulges on Female Jacksons front legs

[XtremeReptiles]

Hi guys not sure you can help me but in the recent months I have notice a bulge appearing on the front legs of my female merumontanus. A friend of mine mentioned it may be an absess as he said his female jacksonii had a similar condition. My other thought may have been gout but I have kept the supplements the same as the previous owner, and there were no signs when I bought the pair. The male is fine and active but I find the female to sometimes not grip the branches to well with the front legs. Here are some pictures. I can provide more details on the supplements and setups also. Thanks for any help!

 

[kinyonga]

I don't know about the right leg but the left could be gout. You need to check with a vet.

 

[brownie64]

I could be gout. Jacksons are a lot more sensitive to supplementation do to their slow metabolism as you probably already know, but what is your schedule
especially the d3, and the multivitamin.

 

[alphakenc]

Have the vet take a xray on that leg just to be sure it wont have any problems in the near future.

 

[kinyonga]

What supplements SPECIFICALLY do you use and how often for each? What do you feed/gutload the insects with?

 

[XtremeReptiles]

What supplements SPECIFICALLY do you use and how often for each? What do you feed/gutload the insects with?

I use nutrobal only once a month, as I knew how sensitive montane species were to supplements I wanted to keep it the same as the breeder has done. As for gut loading I only no protein gut load but fresh vegetables. Out of interest what do you find works for supplementing?

It's weird as my male does not have this problem and he has the same routine. But I will make an appointment at the vets, but anyway that you could help as to how you supplement would be great!!

 

[XtremeReptiles]

As for setup and feeding. I have her under Arcadia t5 lighting 6% in a mesh viv, she is sprayed 3 times a day. Also she gets a variety of insects (crickets being the staple, locusts, curly wing flies and the odd calci worm)

 

[kinyonga]

I looked at the legs again and indont think it's gout but remember I'm not a vet. I've never seen anything like it. Usually infections don't have that baggy look. I think you need to have a sample of what's in those bulges done.

 

[kinyonga]

Regarding supplements...do you not dust with a phosphorous-free calcium powder lightly at most feedings then? IMHO if we are always feeding them insects that have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorous we have to dust those insects to make up for it. IMHO we have to be careful of the fat soluble vitamins like D3 and vitamin A.

 

[brownie64]

Yah I would give her calcium without d3 at about every other feeding. And I have never used that particular multivitamin you'll have to make sure it's got the right vitamin A the wrong kind can cause health issues as well. It should be preformed vitamin A

 

[kinyonga]

Preformed Vitamin A can build up in the system and lead to health issues if overdone...so be carefulnwith it. So can D3 from supplements.

 

[carol5208]

Bloodwork can check the uric acid levels to rule out gout. Also, if it is gout, the bulge will be hard as opposed to spongy or feel like it is filled with fluid.

 

[XtremeReptiles]

The guy I bought her from that kept a vast amount of montane species over a number of years said that the nutrobal supplementation had enough calcium and d3 just to supplement once a month. I have pure calcium that I use most feeds for other chams/reps but these have faster metabolisms and aren't sensitive to supplements. If you guys think I should start giving pure Ca most feeds then I can do but I'm very cautious of this.

I've got a vet appointment with one of the best in my area on Monday to have blood tests and X-rays done to hopefully rule out Uric acid build up.

As for that supplement containing vitamin A it does contain this but doesn't specify which type.

If someone could get back to me that would be fantastic!

 

[brownie64]

This might be useful reading.http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=17+1796&aid=3027

 

[jajeanpierre]

The guy I bought her from that kept a vast amount of montane species over a number of years said that the nutrobal supplementation had enough calcium and d3 just to supplement once a month. I have pure calcium that I use most feeds for other chams/reps but these have faster metabolisms and aren't sensitive to supplements. If you guys think I should start giving pure Ca most feeds then I can do but I'm very cautious of this.

I've got a vet appointment with one of the best in my area on Monday to have blood tests and X-rays done to hopefully rule out Uric acid build up.

As for that supplement containing vitamin A it does contain this but doesn't specify which type.

If someone could get back to me that would be fantastic!

The thing about calcium is that only so much can be absorbed in the gut at any one time. I learned that from my orthopedic surgeon as we were discussing my slightly weaker bones. He told me to take my calcium at least twice a day rather than all at once. I supplement my females with calcium at least once a day. Males don't have the same demands for calcium.

I haven't found my quads to be particularly sensitive to plain calcium. Vitamins, yes, but not plain calcium.

 

[XtremeReptiles]

The thing about calcium is that only so much can be absorbed in the gut at any one time. I learned that from my orthopedic surgeon as we were discussing my slightly weaker bones. He told me to take my calcium at least twice a day rather than all at once. I supplement my females with calcium at least once a day. Males don't have the same demands for calcium.

I haven't found my quads to be particularly sensitive to plain calcium. Vitamins, yes, but not plain calcium.

So would supplementing pure calcium every feed for female and twice a week for the male be ok? With this I could use the Vetark nutrobal multivitamin with d3 once a month. Would this be a future beneficial method? I gutload using mixed veg, so any veg high in vitamin A will no longer be used to prevent any vitamin A abnormalities. Or what products do others use for multivitamins that has the correct vit A in? I'm from the UK so it may be difficult to find but I should be able to get it!

Thanks

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."any veg high in vitamin A will no longer be used to prevent any vitamin A abnormalities"....I should have explained the vitamin A for you......there are two forms of vitamin A, prOformed and prEformed. PrOformed sources of vitamin A cannot build up in the system and lead to health issues while prEformed sources can. PrOformed sources (beta carotene) are natural...from veggies and fruits. PrEformed vitamin A (retinol, etc) comes from synthetic sources and meats. However there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene to usable vitamin A. What I use is a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene source and no D3 so that I don't have to worry about overdosing either. This leaves it up to you to decide whether to use prEformed or not. I only dust twice a month with the vitamin powder. I use a phosphorous-free calcium D3 powder twice a month to ensure that the chameleon gets some D3 without overdosing it and leaving the chameleon to produce the rest of the D3 from its exposure to the UVB light. I dust at most feedings with a phosphorous-free calcium powder.

I have kept several montage species and they've done well with this.

Hope this explains it better.

 

[alphakenc]

So would supplementing pure calcium every feed for female and twice a week for the male be ok? With this I could use the Vetark nutrobal multivitamin with d3 once a month. Would this be a future beneficial method? I gutload using mixed veg, so any veg high in vitamin A will no longer be used to prevent any vitamin A abnormalities. Or what products do others use for multivitamins that has the correct vit A in? I'm from the UK so it may be difficult to find but I should be able to get it!

Thanks

I like the Repcal brand,see if you can find it in amazon uk or ebay uk

 

[XtremeReptiles]

I like the Repcal brand,see if you can find it in amazon uk or ebay uk

Do you use the herpitivite multivitamin?

 

[alphakenc]

Yes the blue color one twice a month,along with gutloade

d feeder lightly dusted with it