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robmd1

Avid Member
Ok i have a question for you all that do breed your chams..We all wait atleast 2 months to sell an ship out chams because anything can happen an after then ya have better chances rite....ok so how many you breeders would hatch out a clutch an then in the same week this time of year offer them forsale an shipping?i read an add two places today that made me sick.sellin an shipping babies that hatched in the lastweek..the guy said when asked if he was kidding said hes offering a good price. please tell me ya imput on this..

edit: i should also add they also offer a 48 hr guarantee.... would that be enough of a guarantee for you?
 

chameleonneeds

Avid Member
If I was going to sell babies that young/small I would only do it if it is an urgent purchase being made by a person who knows what they are doing and then also to tell them that it is at there own risk, I would not do it to make money faster or anything like that.
Otherwise I would hold them back til 2 months or more, specificly with panthers to make sure they are the right sex for the buyer.
 

laurie

Retired Moderator
I know it can happen but those people are completely unethical. I had someone see that I had baby veiled and wanted to buy them at 2 weeks. They saw the pictures here on the forum and sent me a PM. Imagine my surprise. I would never do business with them even when those chams are 1 year old. That is a lot worse the even the pet stores.:(
 

pssh

Avid Member
If done right, shipping very young chameleons can be pretty successful. I wouldn't agree to ship in the winter unless it was staying rather local in a warmer climate (ie: CA to CA, FL to FL.) The receiving party should of course be very experienced for the sake of the babies also.
 

Julirs

New Member
At almost every reptile show you will find vendors that sell 2 week-ish old baby Veileds in a clear plastic lidded cup with some moss in the bottom and a stick that the animal is clinging to for about $25.00. Very cute-so how many of these animals so you think survive a week? There are always going to be people in the hobby in it for the almighty dollar!
 

pssh

Avid Member
I dunno, amazing blue reptiles sells baby Veileds younger than 2 months old. Veileds are pretty hardy, so if the owner knew the bare basics, it would probably do okay.
 

Dez

Chamalot Chameleons
I think I saw the same ad last night...panthers one week old. My first thought was 'oh my god that's way WAY too young!"

I don't like to let panthers go until they are at least 3 months old . veilds at 2 months

He is probably trying to sell them as soon as he can to make a buck and not caring about the well being of the baby. That was my thought anyway.
 

jannb

Chameleon Enthusiast
That's way to young. My veiled babies (even the largerest ones) were over 7 weeks old before I let them go to very experienced keepers and my babies were big and healthy.
 

Vegas Chad

Avid Member
I just took a peek at this ad. The short answer is don’t waste your money. This is a guy who I am rather sure had a Gravid WC female who dumped eggs. You are paying big money for babies that may not be what they are said to be. Also, I have never herd of this guy before… He joined fauna about 2 months, ago the same time he started posting fresh WC ads. Don’t flush you money away!
 

robmd1

Avid Member
I just took a peek at this ad. The short answer is don’t waste your money. This is a guy who I am rather sure had a Gravid WC female who dumped eggs. You are paying big money for babies that may not be what they are said to be. Also, I have never herd of this guy before… He joined fauna about 2 months, ago the same time he started posting fresh WC ads. Don’t flush you money away!

yeah i wasnt goin to chad it just made me sick so young an shipping also hows his goin be falys when everyone else had faly banjas,id say they came from the same group so hes goin sell a bunch of falybanjas as falys? theres going to be alot of this as someone on here bought two the adults hopin there falys, when chances are they arnt an will only muddy the waters.
 
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Fidel

New Member
I can think of a couple reasons why someone would do this. One, because they have no idea how to care for hatchling panthers and do not want to assume the risk, so they sell them off before they kill them. Two, they are banking on the fact that they are a high demand locale and people may be willing to risk buying hatchlings just to get their hands on them.
 

Cainschams

New Member
I dont see a problem with shipping them at all this young. Ive shipped chams around a week or two old. Panthers, bitaeniatus and tavetana. They all went to my friend Phil who I knew could take care of them well. If packed right they should do fine with shipping. Although, I dont agree with trying to sell them that young to make a buck. I shipped mine for the price of shipping and to a friend who I knew had plenty of experience which is fine in my eyes but just sending them to anyone is pretty piss poor if you ask me.
 

jdog1027

Established Member
I don't think it is a wise thing to ship chameleons this young to just anyone. There can be certain exceptions like what Jared mentioned, which is shipping to an aquaintance whom you know has experience. When I first started breeding chameleons (Veileds) back in the 90's, I would sell them locally at very young ages, because shipping was a whole different ball game than it is now. I was VERY big on customer support. I bought myself a business license and started an account with a local cricket breeder in the same town as I live in. I would buy appropriately sized crickets in super bulk at wholesale price, and sold them to my customers. I'll NEVER do that again. I met some nice people this way, but I also had to deal with some very difficult personalities. But I would not ship/sell a chameleon now until they are large enough to feed on easily obtainable and properly sized feeders from the 'corporate' pet stores. I've never shipped a chameleon before, all of mine sold to local 'Mom and Pop' petstores, locals through our newspaper classifieds and at our monthly reptile show in Birmingham.
 

Texas Ranger

Avid Member
I saw that ad too. I dont know him personally. But I have spoke to him in the past. He is a "broker" a "importer". He doesnt care about the animals on a pet level. That is his job so to speak. I dont think chameleons should be sold or shipped at that age. I kind of think of them as puppies. Puppies have to stay with their mom for minimum of 6 weeks. I think chameleons should stay with the breeders for 3 months at least. But have have seen panthers and veilds sold at stores, shows, and online at very young ages. It is wrong IMO.

But they will sell. Like someone said earlier they are a wanted local. People will take the risk. And that guy knows it. So he is thinking why spend time and money raising them when some idiot will by them now.
 

Vegas Chad

Avid Member
Two separate issues have come to light in this thread…

1: Shipping baby chameleons is in itself not a big deal (like Cain said) AS LONG AS the person who it getting them knows what to do, they are healthy before being sent and the weather is ideal.

2: The question of faly-banja and the person in question/chameleon/blood lines… Unless the hatcher of the eggs (you don’t need to be a “breeder” to hatch eggs) takes the time to grow and prove out a generation of the eggs then they have no right to sell CB or CBB 100% anything… Doing this takes time and lots of it. Getting a gravid “faly” who’s baby’s turn out to be something not faly kind of makes you look like an ass after you have sold a whole clutch of $500 cross chameleons. It has happened to several large breeders in the past and will happen again. Unless you learn how to speak chameleon and ask where they came from you have to prove out the animal.

We are going into our 4th year of business and this will be the first year where I will be able to truly say that I will be able to offer my own lines of animals that are not related to anything else in the USA, it has taken 2 generations to prove out WC females. It has taken a serous time investment and it something that we are extremely proud of. People here who are ignorant enough to *blindly* trust the exporter/importer/seller might end up with some really over-priced cross chameleons.

I continue to find it very amusing that the most vocal people about many issues have the least experience. Spending hours behind computer reading about what other people have to say doesn’t make you qualified to spout off things that you have no business talking about. In the grand scale of things I am an n00b compared to some of my peers who I respect and get advice from.
 

Vegas Chad

Avid Member
Also, very few people directly import from Madagascar… Most people (I suspect this seller included) hand pick animals from other shipments. So saying person X is selling X doesn’t mean that he imported anything, he may have just purchased animals from a real importer/wholesaler… Most people who truly import don’t deal with the public at all. Nick Mole is the only importer that jumps to the front of my mind who deals with small order sales.
 

laurie

Retired Moderator
Two separate issues have come to light in this thread…

1: Shipping baby chameleons is in itself not a big deal (like Cain said) AS LONG AS the person who it getting them knows what to do, they are healthy before being sent and the weather is ideal.

2: The question of faly-banja and the person in question/chameleon/blood lines… Unless the hatcher of the eggs (you don’t need to be a “breeder” to hatch eggs) takes the time to grow and prove out a generation of the eggs then they have no right to sell CB or CBB 100% anything… Doing this takes time and lots of it. Getting a gravid “faly” who’s baby’s turn out to be something not faly kind of makes you look like an ass after you have sold a whole clutch of $500 cross chameleons. It has happened to several large breeders in the past and will happen again. Unless you learn how to speak chameleon and ask where they came from you have to prove out the animal.

We are going into our 4th year of business and this will be the first year where I will be able to truly say that I will be able to offer my own lines of animals that are not related to anything else in the USA, it has taken 2 generations to prove out WC females. It has taken a serous time investment and it something that we are extremely proud of. People here who are ignorant enough to *blindly* trust the exporter/importer/seller might end up with some really over-priced cross chameleons.

I continue to find it very amusing that the most vocal people about many issues have the least experience. Spending hours behind computer reading about what other people have to say doesn’t make you qualified to spout off things that you have no business talking about. In the grand scale of things I am an n00b compared to some of my peers who I respect and get advice from.

Perfect post!! So few of us really "know" what we have. I commend you for the time , work & money you have invested to get your own proven lines. Keep up the good job Chad.
 

melric

Avid Member
Yes, that's a great post Chad. I agree. I usually just read these type of threads because I don't want to sound like an ass when I have no experience about the matter, only what I've read. So good job!:)
 

robmd1

Avid Member
Where did my first post go? It was intended to be informational to the OP, so I dont know why it was removed.

im glad it was as you wernt... an i agree chad very well said.. its an accompilsment to do that..
 
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