Sick veiled cham? I think...

[MissMelRoon]

I have a 8 month old veiled. He has been doing great up until this past Saturday. He started shedding about a week ago. He has had his eyes closed since Monday. He has also not eaten since Monday. He is just hanging on the side of his screened cage. I mist his 4 times daily, he eats gut loaded crickets and occasional wax worms as a treat. He usually runs right to the side of the cage when i get home from work (he knows when i'm home and i have a special chant for him). He has not moved from his current location for 2 days now and does not respond to the chant. The last time i fed him, he seemed like he was unable to see the cricket, i always hand feed him and he missed. Then he didn't want any after that. What could be wrong? I did try finding a herp vet in my area but i was told they usually just dye like that and to keep his cage at 90 and keep misting him. I do keep his cage at the 90 at his basking spot and 80 in the middle and 70 at the bottom of his cage, (18 x 18 x 32). Please help

 

[Jayce]

What kind of UV light do you have on him?

Also try filling out the stick note "how to ask for help" it is at the top of the "health clinic" forum.

 

[GooglezNvincent]

is he fully shedded by now? are either of his eyes swollen and also shut? and you are doing the right thing for the most part when reptiles in general get a sick they usually need a little more heat and plenty of water. Have you noticed any other differences/complications?

 

[Dunnigan]

This will help us help you!!!

Cage Info:

* Cage Type - Describe your cage construction (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
* Lighting - What brand, model, and type of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
* Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
* Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
* Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
* Location - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
* Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
* Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
* Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
* Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
* Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
* History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
* Current Problem - The current problem that you are concerned about.

 

[PardalisGirl]

Needs help ASAP....

He needs to go to a vet that handles reptiles regularily or he will die for sure. He is in the downward spiral. When their habits change in such a dramatic fashion it is important to do something proactive, like the vet visit, within a day or two. It could be a lighting issue. What brand light are you using? Even if it is a light issue and you correct it, this situation has gotten to the point that he needs medical help. His body is shutting down. A healthy cham can survive not eating for awhile, but not lack of fluids (from water or food source). His kidneys are probably shutting down.

At this point the source of illness is not known and it could be many different things. It could be parasites, bacterial infection, a lighting issue, etc. Something has overwhelmed his system. Experienced keepers may have been able to hydrate him and check for certain symptoms but would probably have to go to a vet for a fecal check (unless they have the microscope and kit for that like many here do) and bacteria cultures. Vet visits are expensive. But when people get a reptile they are under the same obligation to get vet care as they are if they get a dog or cat. Cost or size of the pet does not determine whether it deserves vet help. Also, you need to find out for sure what has gone wrong even if he does die if you want to get another one. Something needs to be learned from the experience before moving on. Not just for you. We can all learn from this.

 

[MissMelRoon]

Sick Veiled Cham

Cage Info:
His cage
* Cage Type - His cage is all screen. 18 x 18 x 32

* Lighting - I use a Reti-Sun 5.0 ; a red heat light and a basking bulb. Lights go on at 7:00 a.m. and off at 9:00 p.m.

* Temperature - The temp ranges from 90 at the top; 80 in the middle and 70 at the very bottom. Lowest overnigh temp is 65. Basic themoter

* Humidity - 50% by spraying 4 -5 times daily; a Basic hydrometer
humidity?

* Plants - I use a live Ficus and several artificial.

* Location - Located in my bedroom away from high traffic area, no fans, vents the top of the case relative to the floor is 5 feet.


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - Veiled, male, approximately 7 months; have had him for 7 months

* Handling - I handle him every other day but only if he wants to. I never force him.

* Feeding - I feed him gut loaded crickets about 9 - 10 per day around 5:30 pm. and the gut load is fruits and vegetables with a commercial food

* Supplements - I dust my feeders with Repti-Cal twice a week.

* Watering - I mist him with tap water that has been allowed to sit overnight; 4 -5 times daily for approx. 5 minutes each; sometimes i see him drinking but not often, just the droplets off himself

* Fecal Description - The color has been the same as before, mostly brownish/black and solid with the white separate dropping; never tested for parasites.

* History - His name is Carlos

* Current Problem - Eyes closed and not eating or moving around

 

[PardalisGirl]

Hummm....

Nothing really jumps out to say this is the problem. Especially since you've been doing well with him for seven months. After seven months of the healthy behavior you described and then this dramatic change.....I'd say it has to be something with parasites or bacterial. Your lighting would not cause the closed eyes. I really think we on forum will not be able to solve this. I think there is NO getting around going to a vet in order to save his life.

 

[blackbetty]

Let me ask this as its somewhat related.. After being in Captivity for 7 months (as hers has been), can a cham just up and develop parasites? How are they obtained? Is it something they are born with that just lays dormant for awhile or isnt noticed at first? can it be transmitted through the insects?

 

[MissMelRoon]

is he fully shedded by now? are either of his eyes swollen and also shut? and you are doing the right thing for the most part when reptiles in general get a sick they usually need a little more heat and plenty of water. Have you noticed any other differences/complications?

He is not fully shedded yet. He still has spots on his feet and his back and his head. His eyes are not swollen but they look sunk in compared to what they were

 

[Dunnigan]

I have heard you can get pinworms from crickets.

 

[MissMelRoon]

Nothing really jumps out to say this is the problem. Especially since you've been doing well with him for seven months. After seven months of the healthy behavior you described and then this dramatic change.....I'd say it has to be something with parasites or bacterial. Your lighting would not cause the closed eyes. I really think we on forum will not be able to solve this. I think there is NO getting around going to a vet in order to save his life.

I am unable to find one in my area. Central Pennsylvania

 

[PardalisGirl]

Parasites.....

Reptiles can have a low "load" of parasites for long periods of time and suffer no apparant harm. This is what happens in nature. In nature chameleons poop and walk away. They don't hang around their poop. They are not often drinking rain off of leaves that have poop on it. Their small poop has little impact on their big surroundings. So they are naturally shedding parasite eggs and even adult parasites like round worms and keeping the load in their system stable. They sometimes intake new eggs but it's not as often as you might think.

In a cage they don't have another bush to move to. Misting on poopy leaves spreads the eggs around. Later you may clean that poop off that one leaf but the eggs are on all the other leaves until you disinfect the cage, etc. By keeping chams in a cage we are concentrating the opportunity for increasing the load a cham may already be carrying. Parasites do happen in captivity. Keeping one cham with a cham that is infested spreads it. Not washing hands before handling different chams spreads it. If a breeder has some sort of parasite issue in a cage and then puts a group of young parasite free juvies in it, they will eventually get it.

I don't have any data on exactly what can be spread by insects. Maybe someone here does. I suspect a lot of things can if conditions are not kept clean. That's one reason I personally never bought crickets from pet stores. I've seen some of the conditions they keep them in and it bothered me. I'm certain that bacteria can be spread by crickets. I'm also certain that parasite eggs from a cage can be eaten by a cricket in the cage. If that cricket is then put into another cage and is eaten by another chameleon that chameleon will get the parasite. That's why you should not take excess feeders from one cage and put them into another one. As to whether parasites can be transferred from crickets purchased from a cricket farm depends on whether the farm is exposing the crickets to any source of the parasite eggs. You have to think this is possible.....

 

[MissMelRoon]

Reptiles can have a low "load" of parasites for long periods of time and suffer no apparant harm. This is what happens in nature. In nature chameleons poop and walk away. They don't hang around their poop. They are not often drinking rain off of leaves that have poop on it. Their small poop has little impact on their big surroundings. So they are naturally shedding parasite eggs and even adult parasites like round worms and keeping the load in their system stable. They sometimes intake new eggs but it's not as often as you might think.

In a cage they don't have another bush to move to. Misting on poopy leaves spreads the eggs around. Later you may clean that poop off that one leaf but the eggs are on all the other leaves until you disinfect the cage, etc. By keeping chams in a cage we are concentrating the opportunity for increasing the load a cham may already be carrying. Parasites do happen in captivity. Keeping one cham with a cham that is infested spreads it. Not washing hands before handling different chams spreads it. If a breeder has some sort of parasite issue in a cage and then puts a group of young parasite free juvies in it, they will eventually get it.

I don't have any data on exactly what can be spread by insects. Maybe someone here does. I suspect a lot of things can if conditions are not kept clean. That's one reason I personally never bought crickets from pet stores. I've seen some of the conditions they keep them in and it bothered me. I'm certain that bacteria can be spread by crickets. I'm also certain that parasite eggs from a cage can be eaten by a cricket in the cage. If that cricket is then put into another cage and is eaten by another chameleon that chameleon will get the parasite. That's why you should not take excess feeders from one cage and put them into another one. As to whether parasites can be transferred from crickets purchased from a cricket farm depends on whether the farm is exposing the crickets to any source of the parasite eggs. You have to think this is possible.....

I do clean his cage weekly with a 50/50 mix of bleach and water. I also remove all feces on a daily basis and if any are on plants or leaves they get cleaned as soon as i see it. I guess he could have a parasite. What is the treatment for that?

 

[Dunnigan]

I do clean his cage weekly with a 50/50 mix of bleach and water. I also remove all feces on a daily basis and if any are on plants or leaves they get cleaned as soon as i see it. I guess he could have a parasite. What is the treatment for that?

There was a thread a few days ago that was saying something about how some parasites and/or their eggs can live through bleach.

Treatment Depends on the parasite. To tell that to need a fecal test done.

 

[jannb]

Here's a list of vets in your area.......hope this helps.
http://www.herpvetconnection.com/penn.shtml

 

[Syn]

There was a thread a few days ago that was saying something about how some parasites and/or their eggs can live through bleach.

Treatment Depends on the parasite. To tell that to need a fecal test done.

Yes, especially if they live in the stomach where they LIVE in stomach acid!

 

[MissMelRoon]

Sick Cham

I came home and took all his plants out and whatever does not stand up to extended length of water. I put his whole cage in the shower with him in, i did not want to disturb him and turned on the shower on lukewarm and let it run for about 15 minutes (ran out of hot water) and took him back in the room and put his lights back on and he was rolling his eyes around and did open them a few times. He was drinking the water in the shower. His eyes do not seem to be as sunkin as they were. Could this just be dehydration and shedding?

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

It is not necessarily dehydration, though if the shower seems to help him then do it again tomorrow.

When was the last time he pooped? Could he be impacted?

Could you provide some photos?

Do keep him extra hydrated and warm. You should probably think about getting some food into him. Is there anyone at home who could help hold him while you got some food into his mouth? If he will gape at you then you could try feeding him some mashed crickets. If he will not gape at you, then you can try to open his mouth by using the edge of a small soft rubber spatula and then place a mashed cricket in there. See if he takes it.

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

My next question would be- are we sure this is a male and not a female?

 

[Teresa]

I have a question the op said she feeds him at 5:30 pm is that enough time for digestion. I feed my guys in the morning so they have all day to digest. Could this be an issue?