Sick Cham

[Jakimack]

• Your Chameleon - male veiled. We have had him for about 5 years.
• Handling - He comes out about once every 2 weeks.
• Feeding - He gets crickets about 5 every other day. Occasionally horn worms or meal worms as a treat. I dust with repical without d3 every feed and with d3 once a month. The crickets are fed fruits and vegetables and cricket juice.
• Supplements - Repical (see above)
• Watering - I had a dripper but never see him drink then I got a fountain which I know now is bad so I will go back to the dripper. I must by hand once a day.
• Fecal Description - A mixture of dark and white. After a horn worm he has runny poops.
• History - He is very clutsy he has taken a few falls from the top of his cage.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - It’s made from a old cabinet that is wood the front doors are mesh and the top is mesh.
• Lighting - 2 bulbs one blu bulb and a uvb bulb I will attach pics.
• Temperature - to be honest I do not have a thermometer in his cage.
• Humidity - I mist down his cage and the wood in it with warm water.
• Plants - I can not keep live plants alive. All fake which I was told is dangerous
• Placement - It is in our living room. Not by any fans. It is about 4 ft in height. I’ll post a pic.
• Location - Toronto, Ontario Canada

Current Problem - I thought everything was fine and I posted a video of him on chameleon forum on Facebook and this gentleman commented that he was very sick and had all this stuff
Jaki Mackinlay this is ill
Ligjt MBD
Circumoclular swelling
Badly burnt casque
Burnt dorsal crest
Gout
This is what he wrote so now I am terrified and need a second opinion.

An ill animal
Typical result of improper care

 

[Gingero]

OP’s other active thread: https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/is-my-chameleon-really-sick.177464/

 

[nightanole]

Nope they are all right. Burnt head and MBD. Odds are gout or something else from a mineral/vitamin imbalance/lack of.

You should ditch the blue and reptisun compact. Switch to a linear T5ho 5.0 or arcaidia 6%, its $50-60, which is less than a vet visit.

Also you dont have any vitamins listed.

 

[Jakimack]

Ya I went with the pet store advice when we got him. And ya. So change the light and get a multivitamin any suggestions on which one?? And give the multi like I so the calcium??

 

[Gingero]

This should help explain it




This one is also worth watching

 

[Gingero]

1. I’d also recommend getting a temperature gun and hygrometer so avoid future burns and make sure your humidity is where it needs to be.
2. What is cricket juice?
3. Mealworms are not recommended even as treats.
4. Pothos plants are super easy to keep alive.

 

[jamest0o0]

Unfortunately I would have to agree with whomever said that. The MBD is from inadequate UVB and supplementation. I think I see gout as well in the one ankle, or it could be from a break in bones from the MBD. likely from poor hydration and diet. What is your gutloading like?

I would start with a vet immediately, along with fixing supplementation, lighting, and watering. Don't have time atm but I'll go back over that in a little more detail if no one else does.

 

[Jakimack]

1. I’d also recommend getting a temperature gun and hygrometer so avoid future burns and make sure your humidity is where it needs to be.
2. What is cricket juice? It’s the green water jelly to keep them hydrated.
3. Mealworms are not recommended even as treats.
4. Pothos plants are super easy to keep alive.

 

[Jakimack]

Ok so today I lowered his basking perch hopefully that helps with burns and I took our fake plants and put in live. The new light will be here Monday. It’s still dark at the bottom any suggestions to lighten it up??

 

[Pearl Fields]

Ok so today I lowered his basking perch hopefully that helps with burns and I took our fake plants and put in live. The new light will be here Monday. It’s still dark at the bottom any suggestions to lighten it up??

Not sure how to lighten up the bottom, but make sure you have some areas that are pretty dense with plants so he can get out of the uvb as well. Maybe post pic of the plants you have so far??

 

[Jakimack]

I got a hibiscus and 2 other plants that are safe. He doesn’t seem happy. He’s very dark. What is the best multivitamin do you guys suggest

 

[Hydra_cosplay]

You may could ditch the plant on the bottom left and put a pothos plant on the there and then tie it's vines up in different areas of the enclosure, that might provide even more cover for the cham.

(Also have you gotten the proper uvb bulb yet?)

 

[bbyoda]

Hi and welcome! Thanks for reaching out for help, your cham should be healthier after all the changes you're implementing. Sometimes when we change up their enclosures they get a little pissy because we're changing their territory. In your case it's for the best so just give him time to adjust while you focus on making the other changes people have recommended.

Cricket juice isn't a sufficient gutload. To keep your boy healthy, you also have to pay close attention to the health and nutrition of the bugs you feed him. I'm attaching two posters here to show which feeders are good for variety and what to feed them. Black soldier fly larvae would be a good addition to the crickets as they're high in calcium. A few forum sponsors sell them so you can check those out.




Regarding the plants, you'll want a plant light so they stay healthy. The hibiscus in particular needs high light. Here's another thread about plant lighting so you can get a sense of which to buy for your setup: https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/plant-lights.177332/

More importantly, do you need help finding a good chameleon vet in your area? For burns, vets need to prescribe Silvadene to help them heal, and for MBD they often give liquid calcium to help with their recovery. At this stage it's best to get a professional opinion and medicine to ensure he heals fully and well. And to see if he's got something else going on that only a professional would catch.

 

[Jakimack]

You may could ditch the plant on the bottom left and put a pothos plant on the there and then tie it's vines up in different areas of the enclosure, that might provide even more cover for the cham.

(Also have you gotten the proper uvb bulb yet?)

Coming monday. Tomorrow

 

[Jakimack]

Hi and welcome! Thanks for reaching out for help, your cham should be healthier after all the changes you're implementing. Sometimes when we change up their enclosures they get a little pissy because we're changing their territory. In your case it's for the best so just give him time to adjust while you focus on making the other changes people have recommended.

Cricket juice isn't a sufficient gutload. To keep your boy healthy, you also have to pay close attention to the health and nutrition of the bugs you feed him. I'm attaching two posters here to show which feeders are good for variety and what to feed them. Black soldier fly larvae would be a good addition to the crickets as they're high in calcium. A few forum sponsors sell them so you can check those out.

View attachment 275412
View attachment 275413

Regarding the plants, you'll want a plant light so they stay healthy. The hibiscus in particular needs high light. Here's another thread about plant lighting so you can get a sense of which to buy for your setup: https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/plant-lights.177332/

More importantly, do you need help finding a good chameleon vet in your area? For burns, vets need to prescribe Silvadene to help them heal, and for MBD they often give liquid calcium to help with their recovery. At this stage it's best to get a professional opinion and medicine to ensure he heals fully and well. And to see if he's got something else going on that only a professional would catch.

Ok thanks.

 

[Jakimack]

So I took a trip to a reptile store. Not a pet store but a store where they specialize in reptiles. Got the multivitamin and the dripper. I showed 3 of the guys that work there and they all said they do not see mbd or gout or a eye infection. So I’m really confused I know the vet is the person I should go to. But none in my area and I feel like I’m in for a arm and a leg. Why is there so many differing stories ???

 

[bbyoda]

So I took a trip to a reptile store. Not a pet store but a store where they specialize in reptiles. Got the multivitamin and the dripper. I showed 3 of the guys that work there and they all said they do not see mbd or gout or a eye infection. So I’m really confused I know the vet is the person I should go to. But none in my area and I feel like I’m in for a arm and a leg. Why is there so many differing stories ???

Well...the folks here and on the group you posted to before know a lot about chameleons. Folks at a reptile store might know a lot about other reptiles and very little about chameleons. Even some reptile vets don't know much about chameleons.

My last vet visit cost only $120. My chameleon had a parasite and burns and that covered the trip, a fecal test, plus medicine. It just depends on the vet you see. It's your responsibility to seek and discern trustworthy counsel. The folks here on this forum have healthy thriving chameleons. Some folks here are vets themselves, or are researchers and experts in the field. Can you say the same about the reptile store staff?

Let us know your location and we can share if there's a vet in your area that would be good.

 

[Beman]

So I took a trip to a reptile store. Not a pet store but a store where they specialize in reptiles. Got the multivitamin and the dripper. I showed 3 of the guys that work there and they all said they do not see mbd or gout or a eye infection. So I’m really confused I know the vet is the person I should go to. But none in my area and I feel like I’m in for a arm and a leg. Why is there so many differing stories ???

Here is the thing... Everyone likes to think they are an expert. No one but a qualified and experienced reptile vet can diagnose your cham. Even then they will want bloodwork and xrays for a complete exam for MBD. All we can do is visually inspect images and go through your husbandry to pick out the missing pieces.

I do not see gout or an eye infection. However breaks and fractures as already stated can mimic the look of gout. Mbd is highly likely being as how he has been under a Compact UVB bulb and incorrect supplementation. While you are not seeing bends in the extremities yet which is a good thing it does not mean he does not have it.

He has suffered some pretty bad thermal burns to the casque and dorsal crest. I am quite surprised you did not see the puss or scabbing from these trying to heal.


I am going to go through your form for you since no one has yet.

• Your Chameleon - male veiled. We have had him for about 5 years.
• Handling - He comes out about once every 2 weeks.
• Feeding - He gets crickets about 5 every other day. Occasionally horn worms or meal worms as a treat. I dust with repical without d3 every feed and with d3 once a month. The crickets are fed fruits and vegetables and cricket juice. No mealworms at all. Calcium with D3 should be given 2 times a month and a multivitamin should be given 2 times a month these two should rotate week to week then at all other feedings you want to give calcium without D3. You were given the feeder and gutload image already above.
• Supplements - Repical (see above)
• Watering - I had a dripper but never see him drink then I got a fountain which I know now is bad so I will go back to the dripper. I must by hand once a day. Misting and dripper only. You should mist in the morning and the evening spraying down the plant leaves
• Fecal Description - A mixture of dark and white. After a horn worm he has runny poops.
• History - He is very clutsy he has taken a few falls from the top of his cage. This is a sign of MBD

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - It’s made from a old cabinet that is wood the front doors are mesh and the top is mesh.
• Lighting - 2 bulbs one blu bulb and a uvb bulb I will attach pics. incorrect UVB lighting T5HO fixture with a 5.0 or 6% uvb bulb and basking should be 9 inches below.
• Temperature - to be honest I do not have a thermometer in his cage. this is important to know. WIthout knowing what he is getting exposed to at basking this is how thermal burns happen.
• Humidity - I mist down his cage and the wood in it with warm water. Room temperature water only. What is warm to you is hot to him.
• Plants - I can not keep live plants alive. All fake which I was told is dangerous. you already got the live plants. Hibiscus are a high light requiring plants. THey will die off without the correct lighting.
• Placement - It is in our living room. Not by any fans. It is about 4 ft in height. I’ll post a pic.
• Location - Toronto, Ontario Canada

 

[Jakimack]

Well...the folks here and on the group you posted to before know a lot about chameleons. Folks at a reptile store might know a lot about other reptiles and very little about chameleons. Even some reptile vets don't know much about chameleons.

My last vet visit cost only $120. My chameleon had a parasite and burns and that covered the trip, a fecal test, plus medicine. It just depends on the vet you see. It's your responsibility to seek and discern trustworthy counsel. The folks here on this forum have healthy thriving chameleons. Some folks here are vets themselves, or are researchers and experts in the field. Can you say the same about the reptile store staff?

Let us know your location and we can share if there's a vet in your area that would be good.

I’m in Scarborough, Ontario Canada.
I don’t know anyone here or at the the store so ??‍I appreciate all the advice.

 

[Jakimack]

Here is the thing... Everyone likes to think they are an expert. No one but a qualified and experienced reptile vet can diagnose your cham. Even then they will want bloodwork and xrays for a complete exam for MBD. All we can do is visually inspect images and go through your husbandry to pick out the missing pieces.

I do not see gout or an eye infection. However breaks and fractures as already stated can mimic the look of gout. Mbd is highly likely being as how he has been under a Compact UVB bulb and incorrect supplementation. While you are not seeing bends in the extremities yet which is a good thing it does not mean he does not have it.

He has suffered some pretty bad thermal burns to the casque and dorsal crest. I am quite surprised you did not see the puss or scabbing from these trying to heal.


I am going to go through your form for you since no one has yet.

• Your Chameleon - male veiled. We have had him for about 5 years.
• Handling - He comes out about once every 2 weeks.
• Feeding - He gets crickets about 5 every other day. Occasionally horn worms or meal worms as a treat. I dust with repical without d3 every feed and with d3 once a month. The crickets are fed fruits and vegetables and cricket juice. No mealworms at all. Calcium with D3 should be given 2 times a month and a multivitamin should be given 2 times a month these two should rotate week to week then at all other feedings you want to give calcium without D3. You were given the feeder and gutload image already above.
• Supplements - Repical (see above)
• Watering - I had a dripper but never see him drink then I got a fountain which I know now is bad so I will go back to the dripper. I must by hand once a day. Misting and dripper only. You should mist in the morning and the evening spraying down the plant leaves
• Fecal Description - A mixture of dark and white. After a horn worm he has runny poops.
• History - He is very clutsy he has taken a few falls from the top of his cage. This is a sign of MBD

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - It’s made from a old cabinet that is wood the front doors are mesh and the top is mesh.
• Lighting - 2 bulbs one blu bulb and a uvb bulb I will attach pics. incorrect UVB lighting T5HO fixture with a 5.0 or 6% uvb bulb and basking should be 9 inches below.
• Temperature - to be honest I do not have a thermometer in his cage. this is important to know. WIthout knowing what he is getting exposed to at basking this is how thermal burns happen.
• Humidity - I mist down his cage and the wood in it with warm water. Room temperature water only. What is warm to you is hot to him.
• Plants - I can not keep live plants alive. All fake which I was told is dangerous. you already got the live plants. Hibiscus are a high light requiring plants. THey will die off without the correct lighting.
• Placement - It is in our living room. Not by any fans. It is about 4 ft in height. I’ll post a pic.
• Location - Toronto, Ontario Canada

Can I add a grow light for my plants