Should I euthanize?

Forestdellic

New Member
Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon (F) 1week in my care
Handling - Every day. It's a must due to medication administration
Feeding - I try to feed mealworms, crickets, locusts and dubia roaches but she does not take any. So I use bug juice.

This is the recipe I used for BugJuice;
10g of mealworms
10 medium crickets (1cm)
2 big dubias (Nymphs around 4.5cm)
0.5g of Rephasy SuperCal NoD
10ml of water
6 drops of diluted BSP multivitamins

Supplements - Repashy Supercal NoD. Diluted BSP Multivitamin
Watering - Misting. Once in the morning 1hour after lights are on. Once in the evening 2hours before lights are off. A warm shower in between mid-day and 3pm
Fecal Description - Runny/watery, light brown, urates are white with a little yellow
History - None.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Screen cage. 18 x 18 x 24
Lighting - 12hours on/12hours off. 90W turtle tuff halogen bulb. Arcadia 10.0
Temperature - 85.7F basking. 73.2 - 69.5F Ambient. Lowest temp at night is 59.1F
Humidity - Digital Hygrometer. Humidity ranges from 57% - 73%. I mist in the morning and in the evening for 2mins.
Plants - Ficus plants (real)
Placement - Cage is about 20inches off the ground. It is in my room where traffic is low and I spent the majority of the time on the computer writing and doing assignments with headphones on. Windows are open all the time for ventilation. The only traffic there is is me.
Location - Malta, GMT+1, Southern Europe.

Current Problem

This is a very difficult question and I am only asking because I am seriously losing hope.

I have not kept chameleons for a long time, barely a week, and so far it's just been a total uphill battle, incredibly frustrating and a very unpleasant experience in general.

Once one illness is gone another seems to crop up and I don't know how smart it is to continue shedding out money on medication for an animal that looks to be doomed. So far, in this week alone, I've spent over 200euros (approx 223$) on medication and vet visits alone. This is not counting the initial cost on basic reptile needs.

I am mostly concerned about my female veiled who is only a couple of months old. She came to me with a respiratory infection which I was treating and it looked like it was going away.

She has not eaten anything in 4-5days, the bug juice is not working, she refuses to accept food, barely drinks and has been constantly black for the past 3-4days, ever since I started administering antibiotics.

Her fecal tests came and now she has pinworms and coccidia. Still won't accept food and looks dehydrated (sunken eyes). I mist twice-three times a day with luke-warm water and in the afternoons I give her a shower for 20-30mins.

This morning I even found the female with diarrhea.

She has also retained shedding. She had started to shed when she came to me. Has a little bit of shedding on her sides that won't come off. A little on her head and I think her feet as well. I am not sure about her feet, sometimes they have color, sometimes they appear all white. When I ran a light on her feet it had a red glow to it suggestion there was circulation

This animal is not even mine to care for. It was supposed to be my girlfriend's but so far she has shown little interest in caring for it because she lost all hope in the animal and is starting to doubt how smart it is to continue fighting this off.

I have another veiled, a male, who is also positive for respiratory infection, coccidia and pinworms but his attitude is a lot better. His colors are bright, his infection seems to be gone, takes food, drinks and is well hydrated. He is of no problem at all and I have time to care for him.

With the female however it's taking a lot of my time and no one wants to help me to share the load. On top of that I live alone and also go to university.

Please forum don't take this the wrong way.

I am trying my absolute best to care for her and provide a good environment. I am just doubting on how smart it is to continue trying to cure and stress the animal with medication when she looks in obvious pain, distress and is showing no signs of recovery. :( :(

The vet is also limited. I live on an Island and we have one exotic vet with little experience in chameleon but he's all I got. I feel like there is nothing else I can do to help her.

What should I do? Should I just euthanize and chuck this as a loss or should I continue fighting? is there any hope left for her?

 
I am sorry to hear about you problems. First the shed may not be a problem at all. Veileds shed in sections and my guys have a little shed on them somewhere at all times. Cociddia is highly contagious so I am not surprised that both have it. It also caused diarrhea. What meds are you using? Hopefully not Albon for cociddia, because it causes loss of appetite. I highly recommend ponazurill. All the problems your female has is curable but it will take allot of time and effort. I'm attaching a few links that you might find helpful. First a basis care sheet for veileds, some info about cociddia and RI. As far as letting her go, that should be a decision made by you and your vet.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-keepers-young-veiled-panther-chameleons.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/chameleons-coccidia-ponazuril-offers-new-hope-16409/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/coccidia-cleaning-need-advice-tips-please-42444/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/theres-no-such-thing-uri-14277/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/back-vet-medication-questions-39302/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/concerns-my-female-panther-47322/
 
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So far I am not using any medication cause the vet has not giving me any details. He just said what she had and told me to pick up the medication once he's in the office. I am opting for panozurial and nothing else cause I already read that some medication can be too harsh. Unfortunately the vet is not in office today even though he said he should be there at 6pm.

The shedding has been on for a while. I read that they should shed within a day or two at this age so I am concerned about her retained shed.

I seriously don't know what to do anymore. This is the best I can do.
 
They look older than three months by far.
Not familiar with the bulbs you mention...is on a UVB?
 
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They look older than three months by far.
Not familiar with the bulbs you mention...is on a UVB?

I think so too but that's what the pet shop owner told my friend (long story short; Friend went to Italy. I planned with him to find me a chameleon (too expensive in this country). Found me a breeding pair. Brang them down from Italy to Malta)

I am surprised you never heard of Arcadia. It's a really good brand and I believe the best in the market by far for it's UVB output, long life and efficiency. The company has made extensive research in developing the UVB tube. It is widely used here in Europe. I don't know in the US.

Picture of UVB tube;

http://www.reptilecentre.com/images/reptile/arcadia-Desert-v1.JPG

Turtle Tuff 90W Basking Bulb;

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/517LkVajsjL._SY355_.jpg

The reason I got it at such a high wattage is because I live on the top floor of an apartment building. I am exposed to winds and humidity is generally high since the town I live is close to a valley. In winter temperatures feel colder even though they rarely fall beneath 10C cause of the humidity combination. So I needed a high output bulb in order to output a basking temp of 85-87F in a screen enclosure along with an open window for FAE
 
I am surprised you never heard of Arcadia. It's a really good brand and I believe the best in the market by far for it's UVB output, long life and efficiency. The company has made extensive research in developing the UVB tube. It is widely used here in Europe. I don't know in the US.

Lots of us use Arcadia here in the US. They import them from Euoupe. I am sure Lynda was asking about your regular heat light. I am not familiar with that brand either.:)
 
I am sorry to hear about you problems. First the shed may not be a problem at all. Veileds shed in sections and my guys have a little shed on them somewhere at all times. Cociddia is highly contagious so I am not surprised that both have it. It also caused diarrhea. What meds are you using? Hopefully not Albon for cociddia, because it causes loss of appetite. I highly recommend ponazurill. All the problems your female has is curable but it will take allot of time and effort. I'm attaching a few links that you might find helpful. First a basis care sheet for veileds, some info about cociddia and RI. As far as letting her go, that should be a decision made by you and your vet.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-keepers-young-veiled-panther-chameleons.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/chameleons-coccidia-ponazuril-offers-new-hope-16409/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/coccidia-cleaning-need-advice-tips-please-42444/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/theres-no-such-thing-uri-14277/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/back-vet-medication-questions-39302/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/concerns-my-female-panther-47322/

What he said I second. Especially about how to treat the Cociddia. Super contagious.
 
What he said I second. Especially about how to treat the Cociddia. Super contagious.

I have read all the extensive documents that were suggested and read also on the life cycle of coccidia. I have picked up a 500ml bottle of hydrogen peroxide 12%, is this good to use on it's own or should it be diluted?

I should be picking up the medication today. The vet yesterday did not show up but he messaged and should be in today between 5-8pm.

Hopefully it's not in an advanced stage and can be dealt with swiftly.
 
12% peroxide will not work. You need 40 to 60%. The kind you buy at a beauty supply store....it's the kind used to bleach hair. You mix it 50/50 with water. I spray everything heavily and let set for awhile and then throughly rinse and let set some more in the sun. Even if your guys have a heavy load of cociddia, the Pronazurill will knock it out.
 
12% peroxide will not work. You need 40 to 60%. The kind you buy at a beauty supply store....it's the kind used to bleach hair. You mix it 50/50 with water. I spray everything heavily and let set for awhile and then throughly rinse and let set some more in the sun. Even if your guys have a heavy load of cociddia, the Pronazurill will knock it out.

It's not the insides I am worried about. It's the environment and constant cleaning. If I mess up once I need to start from the beginning again :confused:

Alright I will pick the 40% stuff

Thank you :)

Any idea why the female is constantly black ? She has been like that for the past 5days
 
Re: arcadia..I should have worded it differently...I've never used it so I don't know enough to comment on it.
 
It's not the insides I am worried about. It's the environment and constant cleaning. If I mess up once I need to start from the beginning again :confused:

Alright I will pick the 40% stuff

Thank you :)

Any idea why the female is constantly black ? She has been like that for the past 5days

You're female might be stressed. Can she see the male?
 
You're female might be stressed. Can she see the male?

No she can not. There is a thick cardboard barrier between the two however I am beginning to suspect that she can smell the male and this could be why she feels constantly stressed and gone off food.

Either that or the it's the pinworms and coccidia.

Btw guys, I could not find 40vol Hydrogen Peroxide but I found the 30vol. Is this still good to use? If so, do I dilute or use it raw?

My vet also gave me Baycox medicine for the coccidia. I have read through the forums and there seems to be little information about it since the US uses panozuril. However I found neutral to semi-positive comments about Baycox (Thank god it's not Albon!) and that it's widely used in Europe.

I will definitely make another post and keep you guys informed on the results of this medicine. Anything to contribute.


Thank you for that article! It was really helpful! :)
 
No she can not. There is a thick cardboard barrier between the two however I am beginning to suspect that she can smell the male and this could be why she feels constantly stressed and gone off food.

I very much doubt she can smell the male nearby enough to the point she is stressed by the odor. It isn't one of their stronger senses.
 
I very much doubt she can smell the male nearby enough to the point she is stressed by the odor. It isn't one of their stronger senses.

What other possibilities could there be? :confused::confused:

The male is positive for coccidia and pinworms as well. His colors are bright, he eats well and drinks also.

The female does bask and move around but she's just constantly black and refuses live food.

Right now I have been force feeding her through a syringe but even that she isn't taking a lot of. I also give her daily showers to ensure she's well hydrated.

Could it be the Baytril ??
 
Could it be the Baytril ??

Yes. It is tough on the cham, can decrease appetite and they don't always feel well while taking it. And, she has her health problems going on too. Plus the daily handling for medication. Its a lot for her, but you don't have much choice but to treat.
 
That was my thought as well hopefully it is cause of the baytril and in the next few days she will go back to her normal colors. She just got off baytril so I'll wait 3 days before giving the next medication to give her a small break between the two.

I feel that if I continue to force down medication it will do more harm than good.
 
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