Sending people to other sites doesn't further discussion here

[snitz427]

I agree it’s a bit frustrating to see brand new members giving advice to other brand new members. Granted, you can be an experience keeper and a new member at the same time… But there isn’t a way to really vet that. I was probably guilty of it at one point myself. It is hard to resist the urge to share knowledge.

Now I often skip over health requests, unless the subject grabs me, because it is frustrating to read so much information and misinformation from what seems to be brand new keepers telling other brand new keepers what to do.

If I were to make a suggestion to Brad, who already has a full plate running the forums… My suggestion would be that you cannot post a response in the health forums unless you are the original poster, or a member who has been a member for X number of months. The tags under our user names are not super helpful for a newbie trying to determine who might be an expert keeper of 10 years versus someone who signed up a month ago but posts all day every day.

 

[snitz427]

And I’m not trying to pick on the new guys… For the record, I have been keeping various species for almost 2.5 years. I have done a lot of research, and I spend hours every day with my crew and their various feeder colonies. I have over 400 plants in my home and a large conservatory being built. All of that being said, I absolutely 100% consider myself a beginner.

An expert in my eyes is someone who has 10 years of experience, or less years of experience but more education and field experience.

I think breeders, with multiple successful clutches, or someone with five years experience an experienced keeper, but not ecessarily an expert.

Anything less than that then I think we are all still beginner and intermiate, and all still have room to grow and learn.

 

[jamest0o0]

And I’m not trying to pick on the new guys… For the record, I have been keeping various species for almost 2.5 years. I have done a lot of research, and I spend hours every day with my crew and their various feeder colonies. I have over 400 plants in my home and a large conservatory being built. All of that being said, I absolutely 100% consider myself a beginner.

An expert in my eyes is someone who has 10 years of experience, or less years of experience but more education and field experience.

I think breeders, with multiple successful clutches, or someone with five years experience an experienced keeper, but not ecessarily an expert.

Anything less than that then I think we are all still beginner and intermiate, and all still have room to grow and learn.

Agreed with all of the above, you're a beginner and know nothing. Joking obviously, we could make the argument there are no actual chameleon experts, just a spectrum of experience. Even bill strand changed up what he was doing more recently, simply because there is so much to learn about reptiles in general. I've kept reptiles since the 90s, but I feel like the majority of my life with them was meaningless experience because I was doing things wrong. My cham experience is about 4.5? years(some of that was a veiled I had no clue about) and so much has even changed in that time. I really think the person's ability to be open to learning, retain, and swallow their ego is a big part of what makes a great reptile keeper. Your 2.5 years of experience is muchhhh higher quality than some people's 10 years experience.

 

[snitz427]

Agreed with all of the above, you're a beginner and know nothing. Joking obviously, we could make the argument there are no actual chameleon experts, just a spectrum of experience. Even bill strand changed up what he was doing more recently, simply because there is so much to learn about reptiles in general. I've kept reptiles since the 90s, but I feel like the majority of my life with them was meaningless experience because I was doing things wrong. My cham experience is about 4.5? years(some of that was a veiled I had no clue about) and so much has even changed in that time. I really think the person's ability to be open to learning, retain, and swallow their ego is a big part of what makes a great reptile keeper. Your 2.5 years of experience is muchhhh higher quality than some people's 10 years experience.

well if you had a veiled, and you both lived, it sounds like you were doing it right. I sleep with one eye open knowing Clarice may kill me at any time.

 

[JoXie411]

The main component of bioactivity is the bacteria in the soil. If you get something moldy, you can throw 'living' soil over it and it will break it down, even without a clean up crew. I'm about to get some fancy new critters I haven't revealed, I sterilized my soil/leaf litter because these critters are sensitive to some fungi. So right now I have the substrate in a humid bin recolonizing the bacteria, cycling it like an aquarium. What shows up with no bacteria present? All types of molds, everywhere. I'll know it's safe for use and filled with good bacteria when the mold on the cork, soil, and leaves disappears. This only happens after sterilizing things.

Ummmmm dude so totally rude not sharing your secret bug project with me dam bro I guess we aren’t bros no mo

 

[jamest0o0]

well if you had a veiled, and you both lived, it sounds like you were doing it right. I sleep with one eye open knowing Clarice may kill me at any time.

The veiled died . I was a kid and the breeder didn't tell us we needed a UVB light or the right supplements. I believe this was probably like 2005 or so.

 

[jamest0o0]

Ummmmm dude so totally rude not sharing your secret bug project with me dam bro I guess we aren’t bros no mo

You never ask me about bugs, I don't even know who you are anymore!

 

[JoXie411]

You never ask me about bugs, I don't even know who you are anymore!

Very true, I went very Mia last the past year. To many personal stuff happening in my life that made me withdraw. It’s my fault

also been busy trying to perfect the husbandry for my willsii, getting they conditions to be as close as possible to where they are naturally. Finding stuff they will actually eat is another challenge. Why did I pick to work with a species that has very little info about them idk

 

[Highway61]

Very true, I went very Mia last the past year. To many personal stuff happening in my life that made me withdraw. It’s my fault

Just curious if you kept that stray Malamute or did someone finally claim it?

 

[JoXie411]

Just curious if you kept that stray Malamute or did someone finally claim it?

you mean this guy lol
Yes we ended up keeping him and named him gambit

 

[Highway61]

^ ^ ^ Awesome, I see Gambit rescured you Seriously, I'm glad to see he found his forever home!

 

[JoXie411]

^ ^ ^ Awesome, I see Gambit rescured you Seriously, I'm glad to see he found his forever home!

I call him the stray that stole my heart

 

[MissSkittles]

As I’m only about 1.5 years experienced with chameleons, I pretty much only feel confidant enough to respond to basic husbandry concerns and commonly seen concerns. I do give links to Chameleon Academy et al pretty frequently because my goal is to educate newbies...not just on what to do, but why to do things a certain way. I love all of the education Chameleon Academy provides and always hope that it will inspire people to learn so much more. It’s kind of like that stupid saying, ‘give a man a fish & he’ll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he’ll never go hungry’. I don’t think I’m the only one who has been inspired to think and learn from the podcasts.
Often the OP will say that they were told by the pet store or other that they are doing things right, which could lead to why should they believe me or anyone here on the forum. This especially becomes true when several provide conflicting info. It’s kind of like a reinforcement to have the academy to refer people to.
I always hope new keepers will stick around, ask questions and enter into discussions...some do and some don’t. I don’t think providing links to further education resources has much effect on that. Some come here to learn how to keep their chameleon or seeking advice for a problem, they get their info for their pet, and as that was all they wanted, they go away. Some come her for the same but have more of a passion for chameleons and the hobby and those are the ones who stick around.
Lastly, my stubby little fingers can only type so much and I’m wordy enough as it is.

 

[jamest0o0]

Very true, I went very Mia last the past year. To many personal stuff happening in my life that made me withdraw. It’s my fault

also been busy trying to perfect the husbandry for my willsii, getting they conditions to be as close as possible to where they are naturally. Finding stuff they will actually eat is another challenge. Why did I pick to work with a species that has very little info about them idk

Nah I'm just messing with you, no worries. Just glad to see you back around . And if no one picked species we didn't have info on, we wouldn't know anything about any of them lol.

 

[aleagueofherown]

I haven't read all of the comments but I just wanted to put my two cents in (while pennies still exist - ha ha). When I first started reading on the forums and made my first post, it was extremely overwhelming the amount of information I was presented with. But it was also comforting to know that such a community existed with experienced keepers who very clearly know that we never stop learning when it comes to chameleons.

It can be extremely exhausting to provide information to a newbie. It can also be exhausting to ask for more information and either be met with irritation or refusal. It isn't irritating because of the experience, it's irritating because you're legitimately trying to help someone not kill their chameleon and they're buying double dome lights and don't have sufficient UV and can't get their humidity high enough, but "fAkE pLaNtS aRe EaSiEr To CaRe FoR". Sometimes, people don't have the patience to be the kind, guiding hand that someone needs. It comes as no surprise when that person immediately lashes out and bites the helping hand for trying to suggest they do right by their reptile.

When we brought Ivy home, I knew very little about chameleons. Now, I feel like I know even less because I had no idea how much more there is to them than initially meets the eye. And I have a lot more to learn, and always will. I am grateful for all of the links that were posted, but I am especially grateful for the people I messaged and had individual conversations with that helped me get to this point. And that's what has me coming back. Because I know there's a thousand other people just like me out there who truly do want the best, and don't mind constructive criticism.

TL;DR I love this place, I think other sites and links are a great starting point, but I don't think the trend of sending people other places is going anywhere. That being said, those of us who want to help (and do it properly) are still here trying.

 

[Crossingtami]

As a newbie cham mom, I liked the direct info from those here on the forum. But, I also liked being directed to other site info too. I know there's a lot of misinformation out there and it was good to know which info sites have accurate info.

 

[Lennoncham]

When you are new it is easy to think you really know. Unfortunately you do not learn until you experience more and have a strong base of hands on experience. You do not understand the line between many ways being effective and there being one way for everything.

the Badder-Meinhof phenomenon: when you first learn about a subject and think you know all about it until you actual learn about it and realize you know nothing.

 

[MissSkittles]

the Badder-Meinhof phenomenon: when you first learn about a subject and think you know all about it until you actual learn about it and realize you know nothing.

I never knew it was a recognized thing or had a name! I’ve always just thought of it as ’newly Licensed nurse syndrome’.

 

[Sonny13]

I haven't read all of the comments but I just wanted to put my two cents in (while pennies still exist - ha ha). When I first started reading on the forums and made my first post, it was extremely overwhelming the amount of information I was presented with. But it was also comforting to know that such a community existed with experienced keepers who very clearly know that we never stop learning when it comes to chameleons.

It can be extremely exhausting to provide information to a newbie. It can also be exhausting to ask for more information and either be met with irritation or refusal. It isn't irritating because of the experience, it's irritating because you're legitimately trying to help someone not kill their chameleon and they're buying double dome lights and don't have sufficient UV and can't get their humidity high enough, but "fAkE pLaNtS aRe EaSiEr To CaRe FoR". Sometimes, people don't have the patience to be the kind, guiding hand that someone needs. It comes as no surprise when that person immediately lashes out and bites the helping hand for trying to suggest they do right by their reptile.

When we brought Ivy home, I knew very little about chameleons. Now, I feel like I know even less because I had no idea how much more there is to them than initially meets the eye. And I have a lot more to learn, and always will. I am grateful for all of the links that were posted, but I am especially grateful for the people I messaged and had individual conversations with that helped me get to this point. And that's what has me coming back. Because I know there's a thousand other people just like me out there who truly do want the best, and don't mind constructive criticism.

TL;DR I love this place, I think other sites and links are a great starting point, but I don't think the trend of sending people other places is going anywhere. That being said, those of us who want to help (and do it properly) are still here trying.

As a newby here, I can’t put any extra words to what you’ve writing. Learned soo much here, and still are, since I’ve found this forum. And really admire the good will of everyone trying to help you and your chameleon, without any commercial intentions. I’m telling a lot here in the Netherlands, pet stores need to refer this community and the Chameleon Academy, before purchasing an animal. Just give yourself a few weeks building up the husbandry and then put in your Cham. This was personally my most frustrating experience as newby, stressing your animal, because of the needed changes. Ohhh crap, getting off subject. Just wanted agree, with your post and I’m very happy to have found this place

 

[Lennoncham]

I never knew it was a recognized thing or had a name! I’ve always just thought of it as ’newly Licensed nurse syndrome’.

ya. Well that was kind of a lose interpretation of it.

the real definition is like when you see something for the first time then start seeing it everywhere. Like when you get a new car then see that car everywhere on the road.

Edit: oh I was wrong completely. It’s called the dunning-Kruger effect

see I just did it right there