F1 and F2 don't match
Solid blue Nosy Be's are an anomaly within the population on that island. There are actually more wild, solid green panthers on Nosy Be than solid blue ones. As for the oranges and yellows:
http://www.pantherchameleon.de/?q=node/50/
Thanks Kent I was just going to point this out.
The concept of Nosey Be is determined by the feedback loop in the breeding market. The breeders locals have a fuzzy connection to what is in the wild.
Breeders have to breed to the market demands and right now that is dictated by color. If something has color to it... there's a strong motivation to breed it. If they can make money at it.. they'll do it again. (and again) Respectable breeders will label these as crosses. But I suspect it wasn't always that way.
re: Nosey Be's
One breeder got
really lucky with an imported female and a male that had the blue traits over a decade ago. They crossed them with a high percentage coming out blue(ish). That formed the basis of their breeding business years ago. (as they related the story to me)
As as they went to the shows, sold the hatchlings
It formed the concept that only Nosey Be's are blue (that's what people saw after all)
There's all these other color locals out there and you don't need to breed for overlap that won't sell.
The bottom line is that, as these animals are selectively bred they'll move further away from the representation of their wild locals.
This brings up the next issue,
There's lots of confusion going on ranging from honest mistakes, shoddy export/importation to really poor breeding from some lax hobbyist that just wants to get rid of the dozen hungry mouths for a quick buck.
For example:
Years ago, Females getting ready for export, get thrown into a bin with lots of other males from "somewhere" and get knocked up, exported, lay and hatch "rainbow" or whatever. That female is "contaminated" for two cycles until she can be bred with a "known" male. IF not, the only way to determine her genes is to breed her and look at the f1 offspring when they start to express and then evaluate, speculate and hope you get it right. On the positive side, some might have though she got bred in the wild.... she might have? Who knows?
If they're lucky those F1's can be raised till they express and perhaps included into the program.
bottom line a female was obtained and perhaps held for 2 years before her genes were reasonably determined..
then bred for her final year.
from my conversations.. that happened all the time in the earlier years.
even then they made major errors - as they learned more about the panther species.
So, What happens to all those earlier random mixed chameleons?
Here's a mix of what I've been told, led to believe and surmised over the years.
I'm fairly sure that eople wanted to recover "something" for all their time and effort.
the animals we're viable but not what could always be sold under their "brand"
Whole clutches went to some wholesaler via a 3rd party,
Those got mixed with other clutches that went to some petstore or whatever.
hybrid locals get labeled under "best guess" or just under "blue bar / red bar/ rainbow, green panther"
It was understood that most would die off in inexperienced hands so "no real harm" by the breeders
I don't think the pet stores care at all.... they just want to make a sale.
They could do that as long as the customers allowed for it to happen.
The animals that survived tended to get "rebred" and so they polluted the gene pool.
Any local information being based upon the appearance of the f1 generation by some store employee's "guess" or whatever.
Mixed hybrids don't breed true but since the locals weren't really worked out... people got away with it (and still do)
Ever wonder why you can buy a $120 panther at a petstore.
that and small time hobby breeding is why.
if people demanded only clean line locals the situation would be different.
Other instances range from breeders buying
from past customers hatchlings and pass them off as their own
(who knows how reliable that is..)
To just downright fraud.
It goes on and on
Your best bet is to buy from a reliable breeder that has worked out their lines from "true to type" linage of a few generations. Or purchased their stock directly from proven lines. Yes, they're more expensive, but it's worth it in both the long and short run if you want really nice animals and gene pools(imo).
???!!!~ Anyway wanted other thoughts and opinions. Thanks everyone
