Sad Looking Chameleon...

[DevaneySM]

I'm new to this forum stuff so please bare with me...

We have a Panther Chameleon that has recently decided to stop eating, sleep much more often and not come to drink when misted. His eyes seem to appear sunken in and sad looking. I feed him a mix of mealworms and wax worms and dust the worms with Rep-Cal Calcium with Vit. D3 with eat feeding. I'm not sure how old he is, but we've had him for about 8-9 months. I use two heat bulbs and one UVB bulb at all times during the day and at night I just leave the one red heat bulb on. I've upload some pics of his setup. Oh and I quit feeding crickets months again because he had a hard time catching them in his large cage so they were just dying off.

Any thoughts?

 

[tianniccari]

Some points you may want to take into consideration. Anybody feel free to correct or chime in. Remove the red light, they definitely shouldn't have it during the night as it can still interrupt sleeping. Pick up a ceramic heat lamp from petsmart if you can. No light but gives off good heat. He needs a bigger plant with more areas to climb around. Vitamin D3 should only be used about once a month, not every feeding where as calcium without D3 should. He looks severely dehydrated. Hornworms could help bring the hydration up, as well as putting him in the shower with a fake plant. Don't spray him directly, have the water bounce off the walls onto the plant. Should help a little. If not take him to the vet and seek attention because he's on a downward spiral it seems and it needs to be fixed ASAP! Not sure what type of UVB bulb you're using, but the screw in kind are not the way to go. Zoo Med makes a nice one. I use the 24" T5HO 10.0 UVB. Helps with MBD as well as digestion. Try the shower method to get him hydrated as well as maybe drop little drops of water on the tip of his nose trying to encourage drinking. It may not work immediately, keep trying. He needs water! I would try gut loading and feeding crickets again as well. Try the cup method with the crickets. Worms should be more so a "treat" than an everyday thing. I would try to limit the amount of mealworms to very little to none as chams have a hard time digesting the mealworms where as the superworms are much more cham stomach friendly. As I said other people on here will more than likely chime in and give some advice as well. Best of luck! Any other questions feel free to ask

 

[tianniccari]

Also, what are your temperatures in the cage, him hiding at the bottom could indicate it being far too hot in the cage. Maybe remove 1 heat lamp as it could be too hot for him. You should be around 90 degree basking (light should be about 6" from where the cham sits) and the temp should gradually get lower as you drop down the cage.

 

[tianniccari]

Schefflera plants from Home Depot are great for maintaining humiditity as well as great climbing for the little guy. They'll run you around $10-$15. Just make sure to wash the leaves to get rid of all pesticides before putting him in there!! Not sure what you're doing for humidity other than spraying, but I would look into the Crane drop cool mist ultrasonic humidifier. I picked mine up at Target for $30. Other people on the forum use the same one and can vouch it's great. It's gonna take time and effort and definitely some $$$ to get him going again but hopefully you can do so!

 

[DevaneySM]

Schefflera plants from Home Depot are great for maintaining humiditity as well as great climbing for the little guy. They'll run you around $10-$15. Just make sure to wash the leaves to get rid of all pesticides before putting him in there!! Not sure what you're doing for humidity other than spraying, but I would look into the Crane drop cool mist ultrasonic humidifier. I picked mine up at Target for $30. Other people on the forum use the same one and can vouch it's great. It's gonna take time and effort and definitely some $$$ to get him going again but hopefully you can do so!

 

[tianniccari]

http://www.walmart.com/ip/10750083?...72034472&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=78765530672&veh=sem

 

[DevaneySM]

I had a tall plant inside and it died so took it out and have been trying to find a nice fake plant, but I'll try a real one again. I have the ReptiRain and that runs 3-4 times a day, but he won't even go to water anymore. I'll put him in the shower and see how that goes. Should it be warm water? I'll have to order hornworms and I've never gut loaded crickets before. Where should the humidifier go, do I just set it inside the cage?

 

[DevaneySM]

Some points you may want to take into consideration. Anybody feel free to correct or chime in. Remove the red light, they definitely shouldn't have it during the night as it can still interrupt sleeping. He needs a bigger plant with more areas to climb around. Vitamin D3 should only be used about once a month, not every feeding where as calcium without D3 should. He looks severely dehydrated. Hornworms could help bring the hydration up, as well as putting him in the shower with a fake plant. Don't spray him directly, have the water bounce off the walls onto the plant. Should help a little. If not take him to the vet and seek attention because he's on a downward spiral it seems and it needs to be fixed ASAP! Not sure what type of UVB bulb you're using, but the screw in kind are not the way to go. Zoo Med makes a nice one. I use the 24" T5HO 10.0 UVB. Helps with MBD as well as digestion. Try the shower method to get him hydrated as well as maybe drop little drops of water on the tip of his nose trying to encourage drinking. It may not work immediately, keep trying. He needs water! I would try gut loading and feeding crickets again as well. Try the cup method with the crickets. Worms should be more so a "treat" than an everyday thing. I would try to limit the amount of mealworms to very little to none as chams have a hard time digesting the mealworms where as the superworms are much more cham stomach friendly. As I said other people on here will more than likely chime in and give some advice as well. Best of luck! Any other questions feel free to ask

 

[tianniccari]

I had a tall plant inside and it died so took it out and have been trying to find a nice fake plant, but I'll try a real one again. I have the ReptiRain and that runs 3-4 times a day, but he won't even go to water anymore. I'll put him in the shower and see how that goes. Should it be warm water? I'll have to order hornworms and I've never gut loaded crickets before. Where should the humidifier go, do I just set it inside the cage?

Definitely need a taller plant cause he needs room t walk around. The schefflera are very common among chams. Look for a 3-4' tall one. Sometimes it's hard to find but they're great. Wooden dowels from Home Depot are great for climbing. They're relatively cheap and can be held on the sides with push pins through the ends. My mister goes off every 2 hours for a minute and it keeps the cage nice and wet. I use the Mistking setup for both my chams. I wouldn't put the humidifier in the cage but on the side. You can fit (I believe) 3/8" vinyl tubing in the hole and direct it into the chams cage or you can just have it in the room near the cage and it'll definitely help. Some Petsmarts sell horn worms, they're a very high percent water and help with hydration. I used a fake ficus tree in the shower to keep mine on and it works. The temps should be warm but not hot. Their skin is much more sensitive than ours. If it's hot to you, it's burning to them. Keep that in mind. Gutloading crickets is crucial because it indirectly effects the nutrients your chams get. Petsmart sells a couple different types. The little orange cubes, the dry sand looking stuff, and the yellow jello looking stuff. They're all better than nothing but vegetables should be used as well. Kale is a good gutload as well as carrots, apples, mangoes, etc. you can search on the forums for a list. He might be too weak to drink as well as his eyes look almost entirely closed. He needs to drink water off the leaves so if he can't see them, he can't easily drink. The schefflera plant has tons and tons of leaves for water to sit on for the little guy to drink. Fingers crossed the shower method gets him drinking or dropping small water drops on his nose will get him going.

 

[tianniccari]

We have great sponsors on this website. I've used mulberry farms for hornworms in the past and they're great. It might take a few days to get them so the shower method should be tried immediately. Dehydration will eventually kill the cham and needs to be fixed ASAP as I said. Hopefully you can bring the little guy back to normal again. It's happened before to people on this forum who have had chams that look much worse and they've brought them back to great looking healthy chams!

 

[Lazereth]

Your Chameleon is extremely dehydrated!!!! Please get him in a shower asap, second I would call the vets around you and get him as soon as you can. Explain to the vet your eating and dusting regiment.
You should be dusting with calcium everyday and calcium with D3 every two weeks. The red bulb needs to go to the waste side. Before I dig into the husbandry any further you need to stop feeding him meal-worms, there exoskeleton is difficult for chameleons to digest and also that have almost no nutritional value at all. Crickets are a good staple diet with proper gut loading. Yes, crickets will die sometime before he eats them just clean them out. As far as drinking, a lot of chameleons will not drink if people are around so make sure to spray often. I highly recommend a MistKing misting system. Before you go dropping money to get things right, get him to the vet like I stated before. Chameleons are amazing at hiding illnesses, so once you see a problem the odds are they are much greater things going on.
Chameleons do not need a heat source at night unless your house is getting well below 60f or so. The red heat lamp can also cause health issues with there eyes and such. So please remove it. You need much more climbing areas for him, like move vines and more plants, they need a place to hide if they like and it helps with the humidity.
In my signature below is a "Ask for help" link please fill it out and paste it here.

 

[tianniccari]

Basically the same thing I said, that goes to show you what you need to do. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions. I'm not by any means a Vet but I do have experience with chams and have done my homework!!

 

[DevaneySM]

What is the cup methods used for crickets? I going out to get a plant today, I'll also look for hornworms and gut load for crickets. I was thinking of lining the outside of the cage with paper towels to help hold in some of the humidity. Someone had suggested that to me. What are your thoughts on that?

 

[DevaneySM]

Your Chameleon is extremely dehydrated!!!! Please get him in a shower asap, second I would call the vets around you and get him as soon as you can. Explain to the vet your eating and dusting regiment.
You should be dusting with calcium everyday and calcium with D3 every two weeks. The red bulb needs to go to the waste side. Before I dig into the husbandry any further you need to stop feeding him meal-worms, there exoskeleton is difficult for chameleons to digest and also that have almost no nutritional value at all. Crickets are a good staple diet with proper gut loading. Yes, crickets will die sometime before he eats them just clean them out. As far as drinking, a lot of chameleons will not drink if people are around so make sure to spray often. I highly recommend a MistKing misting system. Before you go dropping money to get things right, get him to the vet like I stated before. Chameleons are amazing at hiding illnesses, so once you see a problem the odds are they are much greater things going on.
Chameleons do not need a heat source at night unless your house is getting well below 60f or so. The red heat lamp can also cause health issues with there eyes and such. So please remove it. You need much more climbing areas for him, like move vines and more plants, they need a place to hide if they like and it helps with the humidity.
In my signature below is a "Ask for help" link please fill it out and paste it here.

 

[DevaneySM]

Thank you all for your feedback! I'll be working on this all day to get him right again. I don't see the "Ask for Help" link.

 

[tianniccari]

What is the cup methods used for crickets? I going out to get a plant today, I'll also look for hornworms and gut load for crickets. I was thinking of lining the outside of the cage with paper towels to help hold in some of the humidity. Someone had suggested that to me. What are your thoughts on that?

I used a red solo cup to feed my chams from a young age. They learned that the red cup meant food. Dust the crickets with repti-cal calcium and hold it under the cham and if he's hungry he'll see the crickets moving and strike if he can. He may be a little too weak which is tough. You can try the paper towels but I think the humidifier is your best bet to be honest. It helps big time with the humidity. When i first got my chams I didn't realize how much time/effort/ and especially cost of chams but I learned real quick! They're not cheap but once you have everything set up it makes life much easier and gives your cham a much healthier life!

 

[tianniccari]

Thank you all for your feedback! I'll be working on this all day to get him right again. I don't see the "Ask for Help" link.

Very glad to see you're actively seeking help. If you make these changes there's a much much greater chance of survival for the little guy!

 

[kiwilulu]

Here you go
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/

 

[trickedoutbiker]

Where are all your horizontal branches throughout the cage that he needs to be able to regulate his heat? Where is all the foliage that is required for him to hide in, and also to collect water on the leaves in order for him to drink?

That is the most barren cage I've ever seen honestly. Did you do any research before devoting yourself to own a chameleon? Proper research and informing yourself of everything beforehand can save you a lot of hassle and vet visits in the future. Check out the ENCLOSURE thread here and see how other people have theirs set up....

You deff NEED a lot more branches throughout the cage. You also deff NEED more plants in the cage. Real plants. Those plants at the very bottom of the cage aren't doing anything for him. Where are your humidity gauges and temperature gauges?

I'd point out a few other things such as "no lights at night, period, at all. none" but other members here have chimed in and already stated that. You need like, a complete makeover and re-do of your enclosure or else your chameleon's future may be seeing some bad things....

As for this.....

I was thinking of lining the outside of the cage with paper towels to help hold in some of the humidity. Someone had suggested that to me. What are your thoughts on that?

DONT LINE IT WITH PAPER TOWELS. Anything you line your cage with which can absorb water, such as paper towels or regular towels, will wick away humidity from the cage by soaking it up from the air. If you want to line the outside of your cage with something to keep in humidity, your better bet is to get some clear strips of plastic and drape around a side or two of the cage. Plastic does not soak up water, and water cannot go through it. So therefore, it will keep the humidity in the cage a lot better. Just DONT USE PAPER TOWELS.

 

[tianniccari]

Where are all your horizontal branches throughout the cage that he needs to be able to regulate his heat? Where is all the foliage that is required for him to hide in, and also to collect water on the leaves in order for him to drink?

That is the most barren cage I've ever seen honestly. Did you do any research before devoting yourself to own a chameleon? Proper research and informing yourself of everything beforehand can save you a lot of hassle and vet visits in the future. Check out the ENCLOSURE thread here and see how other people have theirs set up....

You deff NEED a lot more branches throughout the cage. You also deff NEED more plants in the cage. Real plants. Those plants at the very bottom of the cage aren't doing anything for him. Where are your humidity gauges and temperature gauges?

I'd point out a few other things such as "no lights at night, period, at all. none" but other members here have chimed in and already stated that. You need like, a complete makeover and re-do of your enclosure or else your chameleon's future may be seeing some bad things....

As for this.....


DONT LINE IT WITH PAPER TOWELS. Anything you line your cage with which can absorb water, such as paper towels or regular towels, will wick away humidity from the cage by soaking it up from the air. If you want to line the outside of your cage with something to keep in humidity, your better bet is to get some clear strips of plastic and drape around a side or two of the cage. Plastic does not soak up water, and water cannot go through it. So therefore, it will keep the humidity in the cage a lot better. Just DONT USE PAPER TOWELS.

I don't think he did anything intentionally with malicious intent lol the OP noticed something was wrong as consulted the forum for advice. Hopefully things make a turn for the better. We've given plenty of advice which Devaney seems to be very understanding of the flaws and issues and said they will be working at it all day to fix. You can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink lol Devaney has the advice, now it's up to them to make the changes.

PS: after the changes are made please upload a new picture!