RI being treated: husbandry review

Norbert

Member
Sorry for the long post!

So I took Norbert back to the vet because he started to show more definite signs of RI. Initially when I took him he was only pointing his nose up occasionally. It was so early when I took him the vet couldn’t detect anything listening to the lungs and of course he hid symptoms while there. He did offer an antibiotic just in case at the first visit but I didn’t want to give him medication unnecessarily. I should have just taken it then though, poor boy. I think the initial vet visit must have stressed him out and he started showing more signs the week after the vet visit, plus his pinworms probably didn’t help. He was dewormed at the second vet visit and started on an injectable antibiotic every 3 days until the syringes run out. The vet said it wasn’t progressed too far, luckily I’m home all day for online university so I was watching him like a hawk ( thanks covid?) I’m also paranoid so even though I was told he looked healthy I still overthink and I guess my intuition was right for once. His tongue hasn’t been working since the vet yesterday so I have been hand feeding today and he scoops the food up I feel so bad. He did this last vet visit, so I’m hoping it’s just stress and will return to normal in the next couple days like last time?

Questions: I was wondering if there is anything I should look out for during treatment? I asked the vet about side effects and he just said he should start to get better not worse. He also missed a shed because the week he started getting sick was when he was due to shed which is also why I missed the signs when he was being moody :( will his shed start late when he feels better? Or will he possibly have a problematic shed? He has been super dark and stressed since coming home from the vet so I know he’s still not out of the woods. Still being slow and lethargic as well. But he has stopped gaping and tilting his nose up, so I hope this is a sign he’s doing better?

Lastly I was hoping for a husbandry review since I’m not really sure where I went wrong. :/ I have made some changes since having him. I don’t know if me changing things here and there caused the stress and made him sick or if it was the husbandry itself? I will post the husbandry review underneath this post.
 

Norbert

Member
Sorry for the length again just wanted to be thorough. The changes I noted have been since getting him as I figure things out through trial and error.

Your Chameleon - Male, Ambanja panther chameleon, hatch date 11/25/20 (almost 5 months), been in my care since March 10
Handling - he will eat in front of me and eats feeders from my palm and cups but he’s still not comfortable being handled. He has recently started standing on my hand inside the enclosure for a couple minutes when hand feeding a few times a week. I don’t take him out of the enclosure except for 2 vet visits.

Feeding - he will eat anything that moves, 1/4-1/3in dubia roaches, and BSFL are main feeders, occasionally pinhead crickets. 10-15 feeders. As he grows I increased the amount instead of size as many as he will eat usually about 20-25.
treat bugs (1-2 every few days): hornworms for hydration and wax worms/moths for snacks and hand feeding sessions.
I feed him an hour after lights come on in a feeder cup/runner. Then hand feed a few BSFL in afternoon if he’s still hungry.

Gutloading: bee pollen, organic variations of sweet potatoes, collard greens, mustard greens, dandelion greens, mango, blackberries, carrots, sweet potatoes, green beans, apples, oranges, bee pollen, for dubia I also add plain steel cut oats, dubia dry food mix, and occasionally banana

Supplements - Monday through Saturday: rep cal without d3, alternate sundays with rep cal with d3 and reptivite multivitamin without d3

Watering - manual misting with battery powered mister. 2 minutes of misting in the morning at 8am (30 min before lights on) - 2 minutes of misting at 8pm (30 min before lights off, handmade dripper runs around noon and again at 3pm though I rarely see him drink from dripper, mid day misting for about 15 seconds to get leaves wet he sometimes drinks at this session,
fogger runs at night about 12am-8am for 30 min intervals every hour (reduce this?)
Changes: installed a mist king while he was at the vet yesterday it has run for one day so far for 3 minutes at 8:30am and 3 minutes at 8:00pm, no mid day misting. Still using dripper, still doesn’t drink he just watches it drip.
Note: this mist is much finer than the manual mister I had been using

Fecal Description - droppings usually have creamy white/ light orange looking urate along with the brown solid pellet poop
Changes: past week he has been going less frequently and when he goes there are 3 large fecal pellets like he was holding it for a few days and going all at once, still one urate that is creamy white/slightly orange never dark orange

Cage Info:
Cage Type
- custom build 24x24x48 hybrid cage, all screen except solid wood back, chicken wire top, shower curtain on sides/ removable with Velcro to better regulate humidity, detachable curtains
Changes: I leave the shower curtains off during the day and only put them on at night

Lighting - T5 HO Reptisun linear UVB 22”, 75 watt basking bulb, full spectrum plant light
Light Schedule: 12 hours on 12 off, UVB and plant light come on at 8:30 am and Off at 8:30pm, basking light comes on at 9:00am and off at 8:00pm
Changes: set the basking light to come on one hour after the morning mist, and turn off one hour before the evening mist, to avoid high heat with high humidity

Temperature -
82-85 F basking temp
70-73F ambient daytime
70-68F ambient nighttime

Humidity -
50-75% Bottom daytime
Changes: Dehumidifier run in the morning to get the humidity down in the high 70s before heat lamp comes on - let the cage air out naturally after that (without this stays in high 80s well into afternoon)
70-90% bottom nighttime with fogger running from 12am-8:00am (reduce this?)
Clear plastic shower curtain on 2 sides of cage at night only

Plants - all live plants: 3 pothos, birds nest fern, monstera, corn plant
Changes: had unwelcome pests in the monstera and birds nest fern so I removed those and am waiting to make sure a replacement plant is pest free before introducing it - I only have 4 plants currently while I wait but I put some fake vines on the outside of the enclosure door to give him privacy. How else can I reduce stress while waiting for plants? Should I just put the new plant in without quarantinine

Placement - bedroom, about 2 feet off the floor, under an air vent but the vent has been covered, only traffic is me sitting in the room to do homework or waking up/going to sleep, top of the cage is taller than me

Current Problem - currently being treated for respiratory infection, also just got dewormed before starting treatment.

Looking for suggestions on my care and husbandry.
 

MissSkittles

Chameleon Enthusiast
Sorry for the length again just wanted to be thorough. The changes I noted have been since getting him as I figure things out through trial and error.

Your Chameleon - Male, Ambanja panther chameleon, hatch date 11/25/20 (almost 5 months), been in my care since March 10
Handling - he will eat in front of me and eats feeders from my palm and cups but he’s still not comfortable being handled. He has recently started standing on my hand inside the enclosure for a couple minutes when hand feeding a few times a week. I don’t take him out of the enclosure except for 2 vet visits.

Feeding - he will eat anything that moves, 1/4-1/3in dubia roaches, and BSFL are main feeders, occasionally pinhead crickets. 10-15 feeders. As he grows I increased the amount instead of size as many as he will eat usually about 20-25.
treat bugs (1-2 every few days): hornworms for hydration and wax worms/moths for snacks and hand feeding sessions.
I feed him an hour after lights come on in a feeder cup/runner. Then hand feed a few BSFL in afternoon if he’s still hungry.

Gutloading: bee pollen, organic variations of sweet potatoes, collard greens, mustard greens, dandelion greens, mango, blackberries, carrots, sweet potatoes, green beans, apples, oranges, bee pollen, for dubia I also add plain steel cut oats, dubia dry food mix, and occasionally banana

Supplements - Monday through Saturday: rep cal without d3, alternate sundays with rep cal with d3 and reptivite multivitamin without d3

Watering - manual misting with battery powered mister. 2 minutes of misting in the morning at 8am (30 min before lights on) - 2 minutes of misting at 8pm (30 min before lights off, handmade dripper runs around noon and again at 3pm though I rarely see him drink from dripper, mid day misting for about 15 seconds to get leaves wet he sometimes drinks at this session,
fogger runs at night about 12am-8am for 30 min intervals every hour (reduce this?)
Changes: installed a mist king while he was at the vet yesterday it has run for one day so far for 3 minutes at 8:30am and 3 minutes at 8:00pm, no mid day misting. Still using dripper, still doesn’t drink he just watches it drip.
Note: this mist is much finer than the manual mister I had been using

Fecal Description - droppings usually have creamy white/ light orange looking urate along with the brown solid pellet poop
Changes: past week he has been going less frequently and when he goes there are 3 large fecal pellets like he was holding it for a few days and going all at once, still one urate that is creamy white/slightly orange never dark orange

Cage Info:
Cage Type
- custom build 24x24x48 hybrid cage, all screen except solid wood back, chicken wire top, shower curtain on sides/ removable with Velcro to better regulate humidity, detachable curtains
Changes: I leave the shower curtains off during the day and only put them on at night

Lighting - T5 HO Reptisun linear UVB 22”, 75 watt basking bulb, full spectrum plant light
Light Schedule: 12 hours on 12 off, UVB and plant light come on at 8:30 am and Off at 8:30pm, basking light comes on at 9:00am and off at 8:00pm
Changes: set the basking light to come on one hour after the morning mist, and turn off one hour before the evening mist, to avoid high heat with high humidity

Temperature -
82-85 F basking temp
70-73F ambient daytime
70-68F ambient nighttime

Humidity -
50-75% Bottom daytime
Changes: Dehumidifier run in the morning to get the humidity down in the high 70s before heat lamp comes on - let the cage air out naturally after that (without this stays in high 80s well into afternoon)
70-90% bottom nighttime with fogger running from 12am-8:00am (reduce this?)
Clear plastic shower curtain on 2 sides of cage at night only

Plants - all live plants: 3 pothos, birds nest fern, monstera, corn plant
Changes: had unwelcome pests in the monstera and birds nest fern so I removed those and am waiting to make sure a replacement plant is pest free before introducing it - I only have 4 plants currently while I wait but I put some fake vines on the outside of the enclosure door to give him privacy. How else can I reduce stress while waiting for plants? Should I just put the new plant in without quarantinine

Placement - bedroom, about 2 feet off the floor, under an air vent but the vent has been covered, only traffic is me sitting in the room to do homework or waking up/going to sleep, top of the cage is taller than me

Current Problem - currently being treated for respiratory infection, also just got dewormed before starting treatment.

Looking for suggestions on my care and husbandry.
All looks pretty good to me.
Why are you still feeding him pinhead sized crickets? I would increase the size of them to something more appropriate.
The only change I personally would make is to cut back the night time fogger to maybe 2-3 hours.
I’m afraid I can’t help with the medication questions you have. I do know that most meds can be hard on the kidneys, so make sure he’s well hydrated. Maybe add some silkworms as staple feeders - those are quite juicy.
 

Norbert

Member
All looks pretty good to me.
Why are you still feeding him pinhead sized crickets? I would increase the size of them to something more appropriate.
The only change I personally would make is to cut back the night time fogger to maybe 2-3 hours.
I’m afraid I can’t help with the medication questions you have. I do know that most meds can be hard on the kidneys, so make sure he’s well hydrated. Maybe add some silkworms as staple feeders - those are quite juicy.
Thank you for the reply! I was doing pinhead as main when I first got him cause that’s what the breeder had him on then switched to the dubia. I don’t really feed him crickets at all if I can avoid them now but I did buy them local once when I was in a pinch and their regular crickets were huge. (I think that’s when he got pinworms and I haven’t been back). I’ve been looking for silkworms but I’m not sure where to get them, they always seem to be out of stock. :/ I saw some on amazon from coastal silkworms but the shipping was so long I didn’t know if they would come alive.
I’ll reduce my fogger time like you suggested, maybe every 2 hours or even less? My room gets super dry at night.
As for the RI I can only assume it was something tiny I didn’t notice maybe the dripper or the misting droplets were too big and went in his nose or something?
 

MissSkittles

Chameleon Enthusiast

Norbert

Member
There’s lots of different places to get silkworms. Sometimes the hard part is catching them when they are in stock. I just ordered some from https://morifeeders.com/products/live-silkworms-bulk who has nice silkies.
Before that I got some from https://www.serenitysilkworms.com/ which were quite nice.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/293724152187?var=592526892980 is my go to when everywhere else is sold out. Usually shipping is pretty quick for all...just a couple of days.
Thank you so much! Just ordered a bunch! :)
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Sorry for the length again just wanted to be thorough. The changes I noted have been since getting him as I figure things out through trial and error.

Your Chameleon - Male, Ambanja panther chameleon, hatch date 11/25/20 (almost 5 months), been in my care since March 10
Handling - he will eat in front of me and eats feeders from my palm and cups but he’s still not comfortable being handled. He has recently started standing on my hand inside the enclosure for a couple minutes when hand feeding a few times a week. I don’t take him out of the enclosure except for 2 vet visits.

Feeding - he will eat anything that moves, 1/4-1/3in dubia roaches, and BSFL are main feeders, occasionally pinhead crickets. 10-15 feeders. As he grows I increased the amount instead of size as many as he will eat usually about 20-25.
treat bugs (1-2 every few days): hornworms for hydration and wax worms/moths for snacks and hand feeding sessions.
I feed him an hour after lights come on in a feeder cup/runner. Then hand feed a few BSFL in afternoon if he’s still hungry.

Gutloading: bee pollen, organic variations of sweet potatoes, collard greens, mustard greens, dandelion greens, mango, blackberries, carrots, sweet potatoes, green beans, apples, oranges, bee pollen, for dubia I also add plain steel cut oats, dubia dry food mix, and occasionally banana

Supplements - Monday through Saturday: rep cal without d3, alternate sundays with rep cal with d3 and reptivite multivitamin without d3

Watering - manual misting with battery powered mister. 2 minutes of misting in the morning at 8am (30 min before lights on) - 2 minutes of misting at 8pm (30 min before lights off, handmade dripper runs around noon and again at 3pm though I rarely see him drink from dripper, mid day misting for about 15 seconds to get leaves wet he sometimes drinks at this session,
fogger runs at night about 12am-8am for 30 min intervals every hour (reduce this?)
Changes: installed a mist king while he was at the vet yesterday it has run for one day so far for 3 minutes at 8:30am and 3 minutes at 8:00pm, no mid day misting. Still using dripper, still doesn’t drink he just watches it drip.
Note: this mist is much finer than the manual mister I had been using

Fecal Description - droppings usually have creamy white/ light orange looking urate along with the brown solid pellet poop
Changes: past week he has been going less frequently and when he goes there are 3 large fecal pellets like he was holding it for a few days and going all at once, still one urate that is creamy white/slightly orange never dark orange

Cage Info:
Cage Type
- custom build 24x24x48 hybrid cage, all screen except solid wood back, chicken wire top, shower curtain on sides/ removable with Velcro to better regulate humidity, detachable curtains
Changes: I leave the shower curtains off during the day and only put them on at night

Lighting - T5 HO Reptisun linear UVB 22”, 75 watt basking bulb, full spectrum plant light
Light Schedule: 12 hours on 12 off, UVB and plant light come on at 8:30 am and Off at 8:30pm, basking light comes on at 9:00am and off at 8:00pm
Changes: set the basking light to come on one hour after the morning mist, and turn off one hour before the evening mist, to avoid high heat with high humidity

Temperature -
82-85 F basking temp
70-73F ambient daytime
70-68F ambient nighttime

Humidity -
50-75% Bottom daytime
Changes: Dehumidifier run in the morning to get the humidity down in the high 70s before heat lamp comes on - let the cage air out naturally after that (without this stays in high 80s well into afternoon)
70-90% bottom nighttime with fogger running from 12am-8:00am (reduce this?)
Clear plastic shower curtain on 2 sides of cage at night only

Plants - all live plants: 3 pothos, birds nest fern, monstera, corn plant
Changes: had unwelcome pests in the monstera and birds nest fern so I removed those and am waiting to make sure a replacement plant is pest free before introducing it - I only have 4 plants currently while I wait but I put some fake vines on the outside of the enclosure door to give him privacy. How else can I reduce stress while waiting for plants? Should I just put the new plant in without quarantinine

Placement - bedroom, about 2 feet off the floor, under an air vent but the vent has been covered, only traffic is me sitting in the room to do homework or waking up/going to sleep, top of the cage is taller than me

Current Problem - currently being treated for respiratory infection, also just got dewormed before starting treatment.

Looking for suggestions on my care and husbandry.
Everything looks good. I only have a few suggestions. :)

At night reduce your fogging time. If lights kick on at 8:30am have the fogger not run later then 7am.. This will start reducing the humidity for daytime when the lights kick on.

Reduce the basking light time... Run from 9-4 or 9-5 this will allow for temps to start dropping for evening so it is cooler approaching fogging at midnight.
 

Norbert

Member
Everything looks good. I only have a few suggestions. :)

At night reduce your fogging time. If lights kick on at 8:30am have the fogger not run later then 7am.. This will start reducing the humidity for daytime when the lights kick on.

Reduce the basking light time... Run from 9-4 or 9-5 this will allow for temps to start dropping for evening so it is cooler approaching fogging at midnight.
Thank you for the suggestions! I will implement them ASAP 👍🏼
 

Norbert

Member
Just an update. My little guy seems to be getting his appetite back and getting some colors back. His urates have looked fine also. He still hasn’t shed so I’m not sure when to expect that. I got his silkworms in the mail today and he LOVED them thank you @MissSkittles for the links!
He has been super stressed with the injections since I never got to handle him much before and he has been very defensive since the first injection. Is there any way to reduce stress during medication or just put up with it until we are done? I have 4 more syringes and the last time he bit me 3 times 😅 only one bite was bad but I’d like to minimize his stress if possible. I wear gloves so I don’t mind the bite as much but I feel bad for him.
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Just an update. My little guy seems to be getting his appetite back and getting some colors back. His urates have looked fine also. He still hasn’t shed so I’m not sure when to expect that. I got his silkworms in the mail today and he LOVED them thank you @MissSkittles for the links!
He has been super stressed with the injections since I never got to handle him much before and he has been very defensive since the first injection. Is there any way to reduce stress during medication or just put up with it until we are done? I have 4 more syringes and the last time he bit me 3 times 😅 only one bite was bad but I’d like to minimize his stress if possible. I wear gloves so I don’t mind the bite as much but I feel bad for him.
If you can get someone to help you do it... @Mendez may have a better way to do injections as well as they have hands on experience with it.
 

Norbert

Member
If you can get someone to help you do it... @Mendez may have a better way to do injections as well as they have hands on experience with it.
My boyfriend helps while I hold him, but I think the additional person in the room makes him feel more threatened. He’s also getting his energy back and doesn’t mind letting us know. It was easier when he was more lethargic but since he’s getting better he’s been harder to handle. Not complaining though, I love to see him get more active haha but he is quite feisty. 😅
 

Mendez

Chameleon Enthusiast
My boyfriend helps while I hold him, but I think the additional person in the room makes him feel more threatened. He’s also getting his energy back and doesn’t mind letting us know. It was easier when he was more lethargic but since he’s getting better he’s been harder to handle. Not complaining though, I love to see him get more active haha but he is quite feisty. 😅
The same thing happened with my cham. I had my brother hold his body while I pinned his arm so I could inject him. It stressed him out soooooo much. So here's what I did:

I scrunch up a regular cloth towel and placed it on my bed. The towel is now the highest spot nearby and deemed the safest place by the chameleon. Before taking out my cham, I would prepare the syringe (i.e squirt the air out etc). Then I would take my cham out and place him on the towel. Then I would kneel down beside my bed so I'm not a towering predator. Make sure that the needle is 100% ready to go before approaching your cham (and check the concavity of the needle). When everything is ready, I put the needle pretty close to the arm (he doesn't seem to be too worried about the needle itself), then pinch the arm and insert the needle. Make sure to massage the area so the vaccine doesn't squirt back out of the hole.

Here's a pic (without my cham below):

20210428_151510.jpg

When he was on the towel and at head /chest level, he was not too inclined to run away or use his back foot to interfere. Every chameleon is different, but this is what worked for mine. Before this technique, he would use considerable force trying to pull his arm away and escape. This way he feels a lot safer. Less stress on him = less stress on me.
 

Mendez

Chameleon Enthusiast
I forgot to mention that I got the idea of using a towel from @kinyonga! So credits go to her. I'm not brilliant enough to come up with this stuff on my own😄 She sets the towel on her lap if that makes you more comfortable. I figured that the less height I have on the cham the better.
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Queen
I forgot to mention that I got the idea of using a towel from @kinyonga! So credits go to her. I'm not brilliant enough to come up with this stuff on my own😄 She sets the towel on her lap if that makes you more comfortable. I figured that the less height I have on the cham the better.

Haha...that was so funny...I read your post about the towel and was glad to see someone besides name doing it that way...then I read this post and realized I had suggested it. Made me smile!
Thanks for giving me credit!
This towel method should make it a little less stressful.
One more thing...assuming your doing the needle in the front arm...try not to hit the bone. If you're doing it somewhere else please tell me...also what is the antibiotic?

I've used that method with water dragons (just try holding one of them still for it...they're bigger than a chameleon) chameleons and other lizards.

The towel also gives there feet something to hang onto that moves with the feet motions but doesn't really make the body move.

I used to do the whole thing by myself...got pretty good at pining an arm down and holding the chameleon in a position where it couldn't turn ebpnough to bite me with one hand while I gave the need,e with the other hand.

Good luck!
 

Norbert

Member
@Mendez @kinyonga Thank you both! Next dose is tomorrow and I’ve been dreading it because he hates it so much. The last dose was the first time I’ve ever heard him hiss too, he didn’t hiss with the first couple so I know he’s getting more angry each time. And he squirms sooo bad, I’m too scared to hurt his limbs so I accidentally give him too much wiggle room and he bites me and I just accept it 😂 But I will be trying the towel method tomorrow hope it goes better! All the videos I’ve found the chameleons look so docile or too sick to do anything and they make it look easy and I’m just looking at my agressive boy like yea, no. Lol
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Queen
The towel should allow him to squirm if you don't push him down into the towel but rather let him rest on top of it ...so it keeps his feet busy. It's not that easy to explain. I wish I could show you.

Aggressive/actively trying to bite is not really a bad thing. It means he's not "that" sick.

Are you giving the needles in the (front) arm?
 

Mendez

Chameleon Enthusiast
Haha...that was so funny...I read your post about the towel and was glad to see someone besides name doing it that way...then I read this post and realized I had suggested it. Made me smile!
Thanks for giving me credit!
Haha, of course, you deserve the credit! Your towel technique helped me immensely. It significantly reduced the stress for all parties involved. I have a huge phobia of needles, so the adrenaline that I would get during the first few injections would leave me unable to focus on schoolwork for the rest of the day. That's when I searched the forums and came across your towel method. After I tried this technique, the adrenaline rush reduced significantly so I was able to do things like homework after.

@Mendez @kinyonga Thank you both! Next dose is tomorrow and I’ve been dreading it because he hates it so much. The last dose was the first time I’ve ever heard him hiss too, he didn’t hiss with the first couple so I know he’s getting more angry each time. And he squirms sooo bad, I’m too scared to hurt his limbs so I accidentally give him too much wiggle room and he bites me and I just accept it 😂 But I will be trying the towel method tomorrow hope it goes better! All the videos I’ve found the chameleons look so docile or too sick to do anything and they make it look easy and I’m just looking at my agressive boy like yea, no. Lol
Good luck and let us know how the next injection goes!

And just to reiterate what @kinyonga said above:
One more thing...assuming your doing the needle in the front arm...try not to hit the bone. If you're doing it somewhere else please tell me...also what is the antibiotic?
@Norbert Make sure to inject him in the front half of the body. The best spot, to my very limited knowledge, is the front arms. You want the concavity of the needle to face upwards so the medicine goes right underneath the skin. Make sure to aim between the scales to make it as painless as possible. It also helps to alternate arms.
 

Mendez

Chameleon Enthusiast
The towel should allow him to squirm if you don't push him down into the towel but rather let him rest on top of it ...so it keeps his feet busy. It's not that easy to explain. I wish I could show you.
That's a good way to describe it! The more compact and firm the towel is, the more leverage and traction the chameleon will have. The more cushion and fluff, the better. It's kind of similar to trying to crawl on top of a foam cube pit at a trampoline and gymnastics area.

I really wish I would have taken a video to post on here. I would say that "I'll take one next time" but I pray I never have the need to inject a chameleon again.
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Queen
Alternate arms too for the injections because there will likely be bruising...and this will give each arm a bit of a break.

The reason for doing the needles in the upper half of the body is because of their urinary system...if you give it in the lower half the medication will go right out into the kidneys and not do any good for the chameleon.
 

Norbert

Member
The towel should allow him to squirm if you don't push him down into the towel but rather let him rest on top of it ...so it keeps his feet busy. It's not that easy to explain. I wish I could show you.

Aggressive/actively trying to bite is not really a bad thing. It means he's not "that" sick.

Are you giving the needles in the (front) arm?
The vet told me to inject in his back under the skin it’s not in the muscle, not super hard to get to like the arms. I’ve got more area to choose from, but he doesn’t like to stay still so still difficult. We did catch his RI early so he never got super weak just a bit sluggish and lost his appetite so he’s in good enough condition to fight back for sure 😂 I think he just likes giving me hugs with his mouth.
 
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