Refund

[jajeanpierre]

I'm not and I didn't... It's just it's my 1st cham and It was already seeming like a lot lol but ima commit and make sure he stays healthy

I'm really glad to hear that because you would likely be dooming him to death since I am pretty sure most PetSmart chameleons are dead within 6 months. There would be no guarantee that a good reptile store would have veileds that are any better, in fact they might come from the same wholesale source. Since veileds wholesale for $8 a piece, it seems next to impossible to raise a clutch that a healthy, well nourished female laid and do anything but lose money selling them for $8 each.

 

[jajeanpierre]

@JustJay I agree with @Andee that something is amiss with his gripping. You shouldn't have so many pictures of open hands--i.e. feet not gripping properly. That can be a sign of MBD or other worse things like joint pain from gout. Only time will tell. Just feed him really really well and get a good misting system like a MistKing, not the cheaper ones which irreparably break when the reservoir runs dry (which it will!). By the way, gout is usually caused by kidney failure and the primary cause of kidney failure in captive chameleons is dehydration whether one severe episode or the very common chronic dehydration.

I still say keep him. A veiled is an inexpensive chameleon. I would have a different answer if you were paying a lot of money for an expensive captive bred species.

 

[JustJay]

@JustJay I agree with @Andee that something is amiss with his gripping. You shouldn't have so many pictures of open hands--i.e. feet not gripping properly. That can be a sign of MBD or other worse things like joint pain from gout. Only time will tell. Just feed him really really well and get a good misting system like a MistKing, not the cheaper ones which irreparably break when the reservoir runs dry (which it will!). By the way, gout is usually caused by kidney failure and the primary cause of kidney failure in captive chameleons is dehydration whether one severe episode or the very common chronic dehydration.

I still say keep him. A veiled is an inexpensive chameleon. I would have a different answer if you were paying a lot of money for an expensive captive bred species.

I've kept him and he seems good nothing has changed much other than he moves around more and today he's shedding!!

 

[JustJay]

@JustJay I agree with @Andee that something is amiss with his gripping. You shouldn't have so many pictures of open hands--i.e. feet not gripping properly. That can be a sign of MBD or other worse things like joint pain from gout. Only time will tell. Just feed him really really well and get a good misting system like a MistKing, not the cheaper ones which irreparably break when the reservoir runs dry (which it will!). By the way, gout is usually caused by kidney failure and the primary cause of kidney failure in captive chameleons is dehydration whether one severe episode or the very common chronic dehydration.

I still say keep him. A veiled is an inexpensive chameleon. I would have a different answer if you were paying a lot of money for an expensive captive bred species.

I never really seem him drink only sometimes when I mist but his urates have always been white since I've got him so I figures dehydration is out of the pictures as for minor mbd I still don't officially know but I've been takin him outside with his viv for about 2 to 3 hrs and he seems to love it!! (Or hate it) lol idk he's either moving around more outside cuz he loves it or because he's scared but I hope he loves it

 

[jajeanpierre]

I never really seem him drink only sometimes when I mist but his urates have always been white since I've got him so I figures dehydration is out of the pictures as for minor mbd I still don't officially know but I've been takin him outside with his viv for about 2 to 3 hrs and he seems to love it!! (Or hate it) lol idk he's either moving around more outside cuz he loves it or because he's scared but I hope he loves it

He's moving around because he is afraid and worried.

Don't trust white urates. They can be dying from kidney disease and have snow-white urates.

 

[Andee]

@jajeanpierre is right. She has dealt with some wild caughts who she thought were passed their dehydration phase and apparently died of low grade constant dehydration in her care and she takes very very good care of her chams. I think it caused her to change some things with her misting and humidity. Just make sure you mist him very well. And if he's outside and acting so worried and displaying stress colors (not sure if he is) make sure he has plenty of cover. It will likely calm him a bit.

 

[JustJay]

@jajeanpierre is right. She has dealt with some wild caughts who she thought were passed their dehydration phase and apparently died of low grade constant dehydration in her care and she takes very very good care of her chams. I think it caused her to change some things with her misting and humidity. Just make sure you mist him very well. And if he's outside and acting so worried and displaying stress colors (not sure if he is) make sure he has plenty of cover. It will likely calm him a bit.

Well if he scared or not I'm not too sure he moves and then just chills somewhere he has plenty of cover and as for his color he's just green most of the time unless I open his viv and put my hand close then he starts showing a few stripes and dots just barely cuz I have also seen them fully flared. For that same reason I never handle him although I have only 4 times but I came to the conclusion that he doesn't like it so I'll leave him be.

 

[JustJay]

He's moving around because he is afraid and worried.

Don't trust white urates. They can be dying from kidney disease and have snow-white urates.

Wouldn't his eyes be sunk in and wrinkly skin if he was dehydrated or can that sometimes also give false signals? Because his eyes seem normal and his skin was looking wrinkly yesterday but I read that can happen before they begin to shed and sure enough today he's shedding. I just don't wanna do anything that'll make him uncomfortable.

 

[JustJay]

Thanks for both of your guys' input and time for replying

 

[jajeanpierre]

@jajeanpierre is right. She has dealt with some wild caughts who she thought were passed their dehydration phase and apparently died of low grade constant dehydration in her care and she takes very very good care of her chams. I think it caused her to change some things with her misting and humidity. Just make sure you mist him very well. And if he's outside and acting so worried and displaying stress colors (not sure if he is) make sure he has plenty of cover. It will likely calm him a bit.

Just to clarify, I did not change anything in how I keep my chameleons. My animals have not suffered from low-grade chronic dehydration. They suffered from accute dehydration at import. Six or seven days in a shipping crate after going into the crate already dehydrated will do a total number on them.

I can't reverse that damage, only try to get their genetics before they are too sick to reproduce. My magnificent YingLong died of visceral gout after being in my care for almost two years. I got a lot of YingLong babies and up until right before he died, he lived a very healthy life. Kidney failure from dehydration is not a sudden failure by the kidneys. It is very gradual but can appear as if it is sudden as the kidneys end up not being able to completely clean up the blood and the toxins slowly build up. Up until you pass the threshold of keeping the blood clean enough, kidney failure won't show any symptoms. Here is what a newly imported animal looks like. Brando, pictured below, spent three hours like that under the misters. I didn't turn them or the lights off until he turned away at 3:00 a.m. The second picture was taken today.

 

[Andee]

Ah sorry Janet >.< I didn't mean to get it wrong. I was just recounting it how I remembered, though it had been a month or two since that thread. Makes sense though, they go through such hell in importation.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Wouldn't his eyes be sunk in and wrinkly skin if he was dehydrated or can that sometimes also give false signals? Because his eyes seem normal and his skin was looking wrinkly yesterday but I read that can happen before they begin to shed and sure enough today he's shedding. I just don't wanna do anything that'll make him uncomfortable.

His eyes can be very full and he can still be dehydrated. And yes, their skin right before a shed can be ambiguous. Look for speed at which pinched skin returns to normal. When dehydrated, the skin will stay pinched together and raised rather than quickly sliding flat. "Wrinkly" skin isn't really what happens.