Record keeping for Ryker's eye recovery

Tomorrow will be Ryker's third dose of liquid vitamin A. I have tried interesting him with my last hornworm I had, it was around 3 inches, he didn't track at all. I ended up feeding it to me bluey before the thing got to big. One thing I am super excited about and the reason I am posting today, is yesterday during his misting he drank is his more normal Ryker way. Ryker has always been a leaf licker. He likes seeing running droplets and lapping them up. Which is why keeping him hydrated with misting alone can be a pain in the butt. He doesn't really react when the water hits him and since he can't see the drips coming off the screen, branches, or leaves... it just isn't great. Which is why I do showers as often as possible and he has his liquid diet with added water just to keep him hydrated well. The showers help with eye cleaning and everything else.

But the great thing about this misting session, is he started drinking, just swallowing what was hitting his face and I was generally soaking his cage. Then it's almost like he saw the drops, because he was specially licking the running drops on the leaves and branches that had the dripping water. He also shot a little bit at one drop. I was so excited. I felt my heart jump into my throat. I am going to go slow with it though. Tomorrow I am definitely going to give him his vitamin A dose. So that means at least 1 CC of liquid diet. But I want to do a shower first so he doesn't stress too much after... and then see if I can position him correctly and maybe get him to see some interesting insects... Thinking try a larger superworm. I don't have any large enough silkworms at the moment. My current batch is still growing. Super worms would likely be the next best thing, since my flies haven't pupated yet, and no longer have hornworms. Wish me luck guys ^^
 
I have learned that after doing this thread, there is too much out there unknown about whether certain things like this will help. With Ryker is was kind of like, I had nothing to lose and I am aware enough of the signs of hypervitaminosis that I would catch it. So I am just hoping he keeps doing better. I also am well aware that with chameleons, they do just about everything slow. Except get sick. So healing can take much longer than someone would expect.
 
So Ryker, during the shower was doing very small shooting (about 1/3 of the length he can) at falling droplets. Made me excited. I ended up putting some very large and lively superworms in his dish with some lively roach nymphs in his cup as well. Hoping it turns out well. I am trying to not bother him so that he gets interested in them. Fingers crossed.
 
So I am pretty sure Ryker ate the dubia I put in his cup the other day. He didn't eat the super worms. But depending on how much he actually sees I am not sure he would notice them or not. The dubia nymphs could have crawled out of the cup but they would have done it immediately because I checked like 30 minutes later and I have never had roaches do it that quick. Maybe I am just being hopeful XD. Anyway Ryker has been very energetic today. He is changing positions a lot, moving a lot. Seems happy for Ryker.
 
So Ryker has come close to impossible to medicate or do oral syringing of any kind with anymore. It's not even because he tries to bite me at all. It's because he squirms soooo much and is soooo strong. Ugh. I mean I am stupidly happy about it, but it does make it a pain in the butt. Because he does still need liquid calcium at the moment and I am trying to give him at least a few oral feedings three times a week. Because he isn't eating tons. I am not even sure he ate the dubia at the moment. He hasn't eaten the super worms at all. At the moment I am making a different feeder cup that's taller so I can be sure. But he does drive me a bit crazy just because he is so petulant about it XD
 
So Ryker definitely isn't eating on his own yet, it was false hope there. But he is still doing the leaf lapping thing regularly and seems to notice the droplets more (i am almost positive it is because they catch the light right since he is more sensitive to light at the moment). It's been easier to keep him hydrated lately because of this. Super happy. I am taking him into the vet today for both a normal check up, and because he was trying to clean his good eye the other day without any water being present and he had just recently had a shower. I have no issue taking him in just to get an eye flushing done. Especially if it helps with his eyes in anyway. Definitely don't want his eye to get infected, and mom agrees to head it off in case it will get worse. At the moment there is no discharge or swelling/pocketing, so I am not worried about antibiotics needed in anyway, but this also gives me a chance to talk to my vet about changes in his level of activity and drinking behaviors. She may have not only thoughts on something that may help, but also may just be generally interested in what is happening with him since she was also rather confused with what was happening with him. And she is someone who I think loves to learn and never tries to pretend she knows everything and will look up stuff right when I am there just to make sure everything is done correctly.
 
So while I was waiting for my vet, I noticed Ryker had a very poor grip in his front feet as I was giving him a once over. I talked about it with Dr. Choy. She is positive he is blind to all regular movements, she is pretty sure I am right and he notices light more. We decided to do a lot of things that I didn't even think about on the way over or when making the appointment. We decided to inject him with a vitamin combo. Which I am hopeful to show some great signs with. I am also keeping to the repashy LoD but am also adding SuperCal by Repashy and am getting their HyD formula to use 2 times a month. I don't think his vitamin D intake is enough and it worries me. He is getting enough calcium for sure considering he gets liquid calcium every day. And I don't see any signs of gular edema or overdosing otherwise that would lead me to believe it's signs of overdosing with vitamin D. His eyes are also getting a daily application of lubrication in the form of just regular gel-like tears. His eyes seem a bit dry considering he isn't rinsing them well even during showers and it's been rather annoying trying to get it done. Using just saline on his eyes is next to impossible since he tightens his lids like a vice once anything is near his eyes and he is super sensitive about them. Even doing flushing today was a pain. He may show a bit of weakness in his front legs but when he wants to fight, god it's like trying to hold onto a 45 pound sturgeon. But his eyes were flushed, nothing weird in them, and afterward he showed improvement in the way he seemed to feel and kept them open much more. She thinks they are definitely more dry than they should be and I just need to it manually to help him recover at the moment. He also got dewormed, but that was just a preventive, and it has been well over a year. Happily he has gained 20 grams since I last weighed him, a bit more at his normal weight of 225 grams. He is around 195 grams.I think last time I weighed he was at 170 grams at the heaviest. I mean Ryker goes up and down more than he should even when he's eating well. He is always ridiculously active and so I have always fed him fattier feeders more often than people recommend for most chameleons because he personally needs them. He used to eat 4 large nymphs of dubia a day, a couple silkworms and then maybe a wax worm or superworm. Then the dubia would rotate to a different feeder and sometimes depending on my silkworms they would too. But the fact is he ate that much A DAY, and he still easily lost weight if he didn't have his extra superworm or wax worm and at least one good sized silkworm. I remember one time he went down 25 grams just because he wasn't getting his regular intake of worms. And he isn't in a huge cage, just a 2x2x4ft cage at the moment. But he's always been super active. Even now he's more active than I would expect. Hoping for some good turn around (keeping my fingers crossed)
 
@Andee just hang in there my friend! Going to the vet gave you more resources to benefit Ryker! I know I keep saying this but you really are doing a great job with the little dude. Without your care he would have for sure been well into blindness without recuperating. Stay strong and keep us in the know!
 
Forgive me for any mistakes, I am typing this outside as I sit with Ryker, don't want to put him in his outside cage because he can't see and it's totally different but wanted to use the nice weather today to his advantage. Will fix if needed once inside.

After taking Ryker out he does show more strength and coordination in his grip already, so I want to say his Vit D intake is not enough. I definitely plan to get the supercal by repashy and the hyd version just because the med version doesn't have enough for my liking to just do it on a semi-regular basis. I will likely do the hyd twice a month, no more for sure, and go down to once a month if needed. He will still be on his repashy calcium plus Lod version every day b cause it has a large amount of vit a but a low amount of D so I think it needs to be supplemented a bit. With anyone with a panther or veiled, pay attention to this post. I think it's important for both species to have a good amount of both vitamins in their system and since vit a is something that should be in their diet regularly but is hard to come across for sure, definitely look into having both dusts. Or something similar in your arsenal.

So while Ryker was outside I was able to lubricate his eyes on my own (with much waiting on my end) and just breathing slowly so he wouldn't expect anything coming his way and he wouldn't keep closing his eyes XD. His eyes were opening more outside... which makes me wonder how much he is still honestly sensitive to his artificial lighting. The sad thing is I have the UVB heavily planted and a small bug screening on a large part of it (with some of it not having any of the extra screening) just to protect his eyes more. I am of course using a 5.0 at the moment. It makes me really anxious to switch to arcadia because in my opinion though the lights are stronger, they seem to have less issues with eyes. The UVB is also lifted more than I normally would. His basking light is a lower wattage and a dimmer light than I would usually use with a panther, but he seems fine with it and he is still active and moving around a lot. He just keeps his eyes closed a lot when using either to bask.
 
Last edited:
So Ryker went out again today with everyone else, him and Hope switched places while sitting with me and both got take out during peak sun hours for me. Hope got 20-30 minutes because it started getting to warm for her and I brought her inside for a misting to cool off. Ryker sat for 30-45 minutes and I brought him in because he was also due for a misting. It's amazing though how just around an hour or so of sunshine these last two days has made him feel. Yesterday he was active etc. Today he's not been super active, but been much more receptive to drinking from mistings instead of showers (which at the moment is hard to get him to do) and he also ate a whole, non-ground up silkworms after I coaxed his mouth open and shoved it in. Which is also rather hard with him considering he will usually push it out again with his tongue. He's also been rather sassy when he has been moving. Puffing and displaying, to what I am not sure since he definitely can't see and half the time his eyes are closed. But I don't question it, got to show your stuff when you can XD
 
Ryker ate this morning for the first time on his own. Well kind of. It was a huge improvement. He saw the silkworm I was offering (only with one eye) but could not shoot his tongue (his depth perception was also horribly off) so though he was biting near the silkworm he couldn't get it right. I moved it just to where he was biting and he was so happy XD. He can only track with his better eye at the moment. He didn't try eating again, though he definitely can see better with that eye for sure, I think the worse eye notices movements a bit more too, not hugely but given his eye lubrication today was a pain because he kept snapping shut his lids which he never did before, I would say it would be pretty safe to say it's a yes. The last few days I have not had the UVB on at all, only using the basking light and the sun when I take him out for an hour or more. I have not even supplemented the last couple days and not been doing liquid calcium at all the last three days I think? I gave him a reduced amount of liquid calcium today, because I needed to get supplements in him and I didn't want to do an oral feed to see if I could get him to eat more tomorrow on his own. This is a huge step forward.

But it also brings up some questions... How many of the eye related issues we see are brought on not only by poor supplements but also constant artificial UVB lighting? I know some chameleons are never bother by artificial lights. But there is a huge amount of some who get eye issues and it seems nothing helps until they die? How many of these cases could have been helped by getting a higher quality UVB (like Arcadia) and only doing a few hours a couple times a day? And then when the weather permits it, take your chameleon outside for an hour or so and don't use UVB at all during those days.

How much of artificial lighting is doing more harm than good in certain cases? Any ideas or comments on these thoughts?
 
So we had some cruddy weather three days before today. Yesterday I was nervous about Ryker missing too much UVB and turned on his light for two hours in the morning. We have had a set back since that day. Today the weather was better (though still chilly) I was able to take him out for his hour of sun. But his eyes have been bothering him more today and I have been having the most annoying problem trying to find his eye meds. I finally broke down and used some safe thera tears eye drops that the vet recommended. Though I think I will end up buying the extra lubrication tube by them just in case. Because he is impossible to put drop in his eyes when he does not want it and I am alone. I managed to do it twice today but he is definitely stressed from it. I mean the lube isn't that much better other than I only have to do it once and it takes like five seconds instead of 30 while I am trying to hold him in the correct position. And I think he gets more relief from the lube. Either way he did enjoy and benefit from the natural light more. The next thing I plan to get for Ryker is a lower wattage UVB. I plan to get an arcadia set up, and get a 2% uvb linear about 24 inches long. That way if I do need to use a UVB light for just a day while he recovers I hope to get a 2% and just keep his levels high enough that it doesn't bother him. I need to talk to Todd about it.
 
So Ryker's eye (his better one) looks physically better compared to what it has. The white ring around his pupil looks more normal like what a normal chameleon has. I have bought a pharmaceutical lubrication for his eye that is meant for humans, but made sure it was safe and it only has three ingredients and absolutely no preservatives. He is once again showing improvement with tracking especially since the uvb has not been use. Now I am going to upload some pictures and these are Ryker's eyes after they have shown huge improvements. They have not always looked like this and I am positive most of this was caused by artificial lighting of various types. Don't ask for clearer pictures, it took ten minutes on each eye to get it in the right position and my neck hurts now XD

20170327_110455.jpg 20170327_110459.jpg

The pictures you see above are of his good eye, his ring around his pupil is just a bit too far in with this eye.

20170327_110307.jpg 20170327_110302.jpg 20170327_110044.jpg

All three pictures you see above are of his bad eye. The ring around his pupil is thicker and constricts his vision a lot. I am also not quite sure how much he can even see with this eye out of the part of the pupil that isn't constricted.
 
Wow Andre Ryker is looking to be in your care. I'm glad you are getting him to track things better and are talking my him out in the sun more. I hope he continues to improve.
 
He keeps trucking. I think the only reason he has survived so long like this (considering he couldn't eat on his own for so long) is because I know how to forcefeed large amounts safely. I also have the money to take him into the vet at the drop of the hat almost. I will be taking a picture of the lubrication gel I use later today. My vet recommended it and some version of it can likely be found in any type of pharmacy that humans use. I think it cost me 10.00, when if I had bought the one she had she said it would cost around 25 dollars. He's super hard to get lubricating drops in his eyes, so she recommended the gel lubrication and it has been a god send considering getting him to rinse his eyes on his own is near impossible.
 
So Ryker got his fourth liquid vit a dose (been a bit longer than usual because he got a shot at the vet when he would usually need a dose that contained vit a so he didn't need it right away) his eyes are once again showing improvement with the dose. I need to remember to take a picture of him and his burn scars (they are really bad) because they all happened within. A short amount of time and we're all done by a 25-29 watt, can't remember exactly, flood halogen. Something everyone always recommends. He looks so much worse than it is, with each shed (I think it's been around a year or so since they happened) his scars get better. But I want people to know that what may work for the majority definitely doesn't always work and they need to be aware of their chameleons needs. I remember in the beginning I was talking about halogens being an issue with Ryker and I got slammed hard for it because I think people got defensive. Honestly he is super light sensitive in so many ways so it's not safe for him to have what a lot of chameleons have. He's CBB and yet he can't use artificial bright lights or uvb. I have no issue buying incandescent house or low wattage basking bulbs more often than I would have to buy a halogen because they may blow more, as long as it means he's healthy. I will not try to save money if it risks his health. But then again I am not using uvb at all and that's because he does amazing without it. The weird thing is Hope does amazing with uvb lights on almost all day. She's wildcaught and a montane, I would assume she would be more sensitive. I do turn them off for like a total of 4 hours and if she gets a good amount of natural uvb that day she doesn't have them on at all. So why is Ryker so sensitive?

@Decadancin do you think we should sticky this thread eventually? I am just wondering because there are so many eye issues out there and I have probably tried so many ways of fixing them and have found something that works? Just wondering XD 20170328_112227.jpg

This has three ingredients in it

Active:mineral oil and white petrolatum

Inactive: lanolin alcohols
 
So I promised some pictures of Ryker's scars from when he got burned years ago when I was using halogen bulbs that no one else on the forums seems to have issues with. I want to show these, not to scare people cause the majority of chameleons do not have issues with these bulbs. But to make people aware, that if they are doing harm to your chameleon do what your gut tells you and turn them off. Just because they work for the majority does not mean they will work for your chameleon. Ryker has huge scars from simple lights and halogen that most everyone uses on the forum, I brought him into the vet to discuss it, and she confirmed it as a heat burn. At the time he was not a screen climber and his basking branch was 8 inches away. Now I use 60-75 watt hous bulbs for him. Works just fine for his temps.

So I wanted to show his scars and these are his healing scars, before they were much worse and they kept popping up even after I had removed the problematic light because they had started to heal in the white phase.

20170401_113701.jpg 20170401_113708.jpg 20170401_113723.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Cosmo72
Chameleon eye closed
4 5 6
Replies
107
Views
3K
elizaann2
elizaann2
C
Concerned!
6 7 8
Replies
141
Views
4K
elizaann2
elizaann2
D
Eye Issue
2
Replies
36
Views
964
elizaann2
elizaann2
Orangejuiceman
chameleon gasping
Replies
5
Views
174
MissSkittles
MissSkittles
yungzerk
closed eyes
2 3 4
Replies
75
Views
2K
Gloriawood
Gloriawood
Back
Top Bottom