Preparing Female for Breeding

[Echoezra]

Ok guys, I apologize if this has been covered, I've been running searches all day at work, and at my son's baseball game now my phone is out of batteries and I still haven't found what I'm looking for...
My girl Trillian (female mitsio) is over 13 months old now.
When I first got into chameleons I read everything, touched on females and breeding but didn't focus too much because I decided against a female at first.
When I arranged to get Trillian she was 6 months old, so I knew it would be a while before breeding and I mostly focused my "refresher" reading on minimizing egg production. I may have been a little overzealous about that, i've slowed her feeding down bit by bit to approx every other day, been keeping temps low.
So far no eggs, just weighed her yesterday and she's 56g, she's only gained 3g since march.
Since she's chronologically old enough now, I'd like to get her physically shipshape for breeding.

That's what I need help in finding - how to prep her for that?
Most of the info is how to keep them from making eggs or how to treat them once they are gravid. Can't seem to find how to best prep them before the deed.
Do you think she's big enough yet?
Should I increase feeding amounts and temps, maybe supplements as well, before the actual breeding?
Any advice is welcome and appreciated.
I really want to do everything correctly here.
Thanks guys.

 

[jannb]

You might find my egg laying/laying bin blog helpful and I'm also linking you Dez's video on the laying bin. I would have her a laying bin available at all times.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/jannb/345-egg-laying-laying-bin.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/laying-bin-set-up-educational-video-77225/

 

[Hoj]

Oh yaaa. It is that time. Woohoo. I call dibs on a baby. I miss Trilians sweet lil face. Glad to hear she is doing well. I can offer much help on this topic. But am always here for ya.

 

[Echoezra]

I miss Trilians sweet lil face.

I thought you might. Here's a quick fix of that sweet little face from early last week:

 

[sandrachameleon]

Since she's chronologically old enough now, I'd like to get her physically shipshape for breeding.
That's what I need help in finding - how to prep her for that?

this article is worth reading:
http://chameleonnews.com/03JulDonoghue.html

 

[Echoezra]

this article is worth reading:
http://chameleonnews.com/03JulDonoghue.html

Thank you for that article link, Sandra. That confirms what I was feeling, that a change in nutrition levels beforehand should be an important step, (going from "minimizing/maintenance" to preparing for "major creation") i just wasn't sure about how to adjust, or what to adjust to. Specifically, quantity, calcium content, etc. Recommendations?

 

[Hoj]

She looks perfect. I wish u the best success

 

[Echoezra]

You might find my egg laying/laying bin blog helpful and I'm also linking you Dez's video on the laying bin. I would have her a laying bin available at all times.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/jannb/345-egg-laying-laying-bin.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/laying-bin-set-up-educational-video-77225/

Thanks Jann for the link, I have read your bin article multiple times. I have had a bin in there with her since I got her, just have a couple questions for you about the laying bin, if you don't mind -
The one I have I wasnt having any luck finding the playsand everyone recommends so I ended up using a "cactus" soil mix that was a soil and sand mixture. I had to wet it bit by bit as I added it to get it the perfect consistency, tested for tunnel holding ability, seemed perfect.
My question is - how do you all maintain the appropriate moisture level in your bins? How often do you re-do test tunnels? Does the bottom of the bin dry out? Get soggy from mistig drainage? Do you have the bin positioned to receive a lot of the misting or away from the mister?
I was worried about accumulating water in the bin so I actually put a little layer of aquarium gravel on the bottom, then a layer of that black fabric for landscaping to smother weeds or whatever, you know what I mean? And then layered my soil mix over that. I thought that way it might have a little bit of leeway to not have the bottom get too sloppy and gloppy and muddy. I just worried about the accumulation of misting above the bin, and her digging, getting 3/4 of the way down and then suddenly - mudslide. Do you think that bottom drainage thing was a bad idea? Do you think she would recognize the fabric obstacle as enough to indicate bottom?

How about cleaning maintenance of the bin? At first where I had it positioned under the basking light, she wasnt basking much, but then she ended up hanging out there more often, so it's been catching way more crud - poops, bugs, shed skin, etc. How do you go about keeping it clean? Just scoop up the whole top layer? Lol. I worry about ever offering a bug like a super worm that would burrow into that dirt if i didn't hand feed it. Can you imagine if they ate my precious eggs before I found them??!

Other question, because I watched a video of a mama laying eggs and she patted down the dirt so perfectly, I'm worried I wouldn't recognize it! Especially if I've been giving her privacy and not peeking and whatnot - I'm wondering if anybody has any "tricks" to tell if they've been digging or not, like a dusting of something noticable on top of
the bin, like flour or spirulina powder or something that I could notice a significant disturbance on...??

 

[Echoezra]

She looks perfect. I wish u the best success

Thanks Hoj for all your help with her before and your support and kind words now. We're both hoping we can make you some pretty pretty babies soon!

You sure she looks ok everybody? Opinions on her weight?

Here's a couple body shots from that same day:

 

[Echoezra]

(Just for fun, here's her boyfriend Zaphod playing pothos peekaboo the next day.)

 

[jannb]

Thanks Jann for the link, I have read your bin article multiple times. I have had a bin in there with her since I got her, just have a couple questions for you about the laying bin, if you don't mind -
The one I have I wasnt having any luck finding the playsand everyone recommends so I ended up using a "cactus" soil mix that was a soil and sand mixture. I had to wet it bit by bit as I added it to get it the perfect consistency, tested for tunnel holding ability, seemed perfect.
My question is - how do you all maintain the appropriate moisture level in your bins? How often do you re-do test tunnels? Does the bottom of the bin dry out? Get soggy from mistig drainage? Do you have the bin positioned to receive a lot of the misting or away from the mister?
I was worried about accumulating water in the bin so I actually put a little layer of aquarium gravel on the bottom, then a layer of that black fabric for landscaping to smother weeds or whatever, you know what I mean? And then layered my soil mix over that. I thought that way it might have a little bit of leeway to not have the bottom get too sloppy and gloppy and muddy. I just worried about the accumulation of misting above the bin, and her digging, getting 3/4 of the way down and then suddenly - mudslide. Do you think that bottom drainage thing was a bad idea? Do you think she would recognize the fabric obstacle as enough to indicate bottom?

How about cleaning maintenance of the bin? At first where I had it positioned under the basking light, she wasnt basking much, but then she ended up hanging out there more often, so it's been catching way more crud - poops, bugs, shed skin, etc. How do you go about keeping it clean? Just scoop up the whole top layer? Lol. I worry about ever offering a bug like a super worm that would burrow into that dirt if i didn't hand feed it. Can you imagine if they ate my precious eggs before I found them??!

Other question, because I watched a video of a mama laying eggs and she patted down the dirt so perfectly, I'm worried I wouldn't recognize it! Especially if I've been giving her privacy and not peeking and whatnot - I'm wondering if anybody has any "tricks" to tell if they've been digging or not, like a dusting of something noticable on top of
the bin, like flour or spirulina powder or something that I could notice a significant disturbance on...??

She is a gorgeous little lady. All should go well for her. You seem to be a well prepared and very caring owner.

I'll try to answer what I can for you but I free range and don't have the problems of the dripper and mister like you do.

I would recommend removing the first couple inches of soil as needed and replace it with fresh soil. I just keep adding water to the laying bin and I stir it up really well with a big wooden spoon each time I add water. I then take a smaller spoon and dig a tunnel all the way to the bottom to make sure it will hold a tunnel and not cave in on my female. I do this about once a week maybe more often if I know it's time to lay.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Thank you for that article link, Sandra. That confirms what I was feeling, that a change in nutrition levels beforehand should be an important step, (going from "minimizing/maintenance" to preparing for "major creation") i just wasn't sure about how to adjust, or what to adjust to. Specifically, quantity, calcium content, etc. Recommendations?

I dont have specifics for you. I guess I just try to feel like she looks right - Im not sure Im really all that good of a judge of it. What I've done is increase food intake quite a bit (prior to when I think she'll be receptive). I want to know she has ribs, but not have them obvious. A tail that is thick and oval, not creased but also not quite round, not fat. A little extra calcium once she is actually receptive, and a little extra warmth in the basking area. I like to think all my animals get decent nutrition all the time, so I dont worry about extra vitamins.

 

[Hoj]

AHHHH the peekaboo shot is too cute I think she should be a good enough size by now. She was almost big enough when she left so I think you should be good

 

[sandrachameleon]

..... I ended up using a "cactus" soil mix that was a soil and sand mixture.

sounds fine to me

My question is - how do you all maintain the appropriate moisture level in your bins? How often do you re-do test tunnels? Does the bottom of the bin dry out? Get soggy from mistig drainage?

Since the bin is only open for a few weeks, I dont find it dries out much. I mist the top if needs be. the bottom stays moist. I dont have a misting system, relying primarily on drippers for water. Thus where the majority of the water falls is within my control. I have a little plastic container to catch excess water, which I empty daily.

Im not sure if the landscape fabric is going to turn out to be a good idea. My girls sometimes seem to be scraping quite hard at the bottom of the bin.

I leave a lid on my bins when they are not in use, so I dont have to change the sand as often due to poop etc. Scraping off the top layer and replacing would work more or less. But even then, warm moist places grow bacteria, so I do suggest you wash or replace all periodically.

I think you will know the soil has been disturbed, and even if not you'll definately notice how suddenly skinny the female is. I think you're going to have the eggs dug out pretty soon after she lays them, probably the very next day.
I wouldnt worry about bugs. But you could always bowl feed to be extra safe

 

[Echoezra]

Thanks guys. I'm feeling a little more confident. Well, as confident as I ever get with these guys, lol, I'm still miss paranoid, but I'm trying - chill melissa, chill... It will all be fine... She's a strong little cookie...breathe deep, zen yoga-style breaths...hahaha!

 

[sandrachameleon]

You'll both be fine

 

[Olimpia]

It's not as terrifying as it seems! lol You'll both be Ok! And I am so jealous, these babies are going to be the best looking Mitsios in creation. Your boy is spectacular and his lady is lovely, so you Canadians are going to be soooo lucky!

 

[Echoezra]

Lol, thanks guys. I know it seems silly, and while I'm planning out things, the idea seems perfectly fine and doable. Logical, sensible me is in charge. But as soon as I think it could actually happen, like yep, ok, we could probably get started, like tomorrow, or next week or whatever, I start to hyperventilate! Hahaha