Possible Kidney Problems

Jakedn

New Member
Well I have been wondering for a while why Waldo would consistently have completely orange urates even though I watch him drink plenty of water. Wondering about this got me into researching causes for an orange urate other than dehydration and the only other things I found that could be a cause was diet, kidney failure, or medication.

His diet consists of crickets and an occasional superworm if he will accept it (he is a very picky eater and crickets are the only thing I have found that he will eat with any form of consistency). They are gutloaded on greens, fruit, and cricket crack. They aren't fed anything that is orange. I do not suspect his diet is a cause for an orange urate.

He has recently been on panacur and then shortly after started reptaid. However, I believe this information is irrelevant as the problem started before these medications.

After eliminating those two possible causes I looked to kidney problems. I started to research other kidney failure symptoms and here is what I found:

"Chameleons that stop eating and become weak are often found to be suffering from kidney failure. This disorder should be suspected in any chameleon that has two or more of the following signs: a lump just in front of its pelvis, inability to defecate (or pass eggs), fluid beneath the skin under its jaw or neck, dehydration even with plenty of water offered, a foul odor to its breath, swollen joints, bloodshot eyes, or white shiny deposits in the lining of its mouth."


http://www.arizonaexoticanimalhospital.com/Care-Sheets.asp?id=116

Waldo has two lumps, one on each side in the same location, just in front of the pelvis. I have not seen a picture of the lumps they are speaking of so I do not know for sure if they are the same thing but the location matches up perfectly.

He has shown very little appetite for over a month now, this could be because of parasites that he just finished treatment for.

He has been defecating alot less regularly, it took him over a week to defecate the last time he went. This could be because of the small appetite, however the last time he went, it was very large, smelled very bad, and was coated in a mucous-like substance (he was undergoing parasite treatment at the time).

He has exhibited edema twice, each time it took a while for it to go away.

He has orange urates despite drinking copious amounts of water, as previously noted.

As you can see, he is exhibiting many of the symptoms though some could be explained from other problems, some of them have not or can not.

So, I am wondering if anyone thinks this is indeed a kidney problem or if it is something else. Hopefully someone with experience in this area could offer me some advice or input.

Thanks in advance,
Jakedn
 
Howdy Jake,

Kidney problems are a possibility. Your vet can take a blood sample to send to the lab for analysis (~$100). I believe that the level of kidney function will show-up in the results. As to what to do to treat the problem, hopefully the results would provide some direction for the vet to put together a treatment plan. The results may also show that there isn't much that can be done :(. Try Dr. Greek in Yorba Linda if you don't have an expert chameleon vet already. Dr. Stein in Beverly Hills is also very good with chameleons. If you are out in the "Valley" then there is Dr. Molnar in Calabasas.
 
Howdy Jake,

Kidney problems are a possibility. Your vet can take a blood sample to send to the lab for analysis (~$100). I believe that the level of kidney function will show-up in the results. As to what to do to treat the problem, hopefully the results would provide some direction for the vet to put together a treatment plan. The results may also show that there isn't much that can be done :(. Try Dr. Greek in Yorba Linda if you don't have an expert chameleon vet already. Dr. Stein in Beverly Hills is also very good with chameleons. If you are out in the "Valley" then there is Dr. Molnar in Calabasas.

I have used Dr. Greek in the past, and will take him Waldo back to see about getting blood work done. Hopefully we have enough money for another vet bill, we just dropped 800 dollars on surgery for our dog today, have to see what we have left :\.

What are some common treatments for a kidney problem if there is even any way to treat it? Also, how much would treatment for it generally cost?

Thank you,
Jakedn
 
Kidneys get infected, at least among mammals. It might just be a course of antibiotics is needed. This doesn't have to be a huge thing.
 
Kidneys get infected, at least among mammals. It might just be a course of antibiotics is needed. This doesn't have to be a huge thing.

Sadly, I have not heard of a whole lot of good endings when a kidney problem is concerned. I try to remain optimistic, but something wrong with a 9 month old chameleon's kidneys is definitely not good.

Then again it might not even be his kidneys, but it is starting to seem like it.
 
The important thing is to find out. That lets you decide what you can do.

I've been in the position of saying to the vet "no, I can't afford that"....it's hard but a good vet will step up to the plate with other ideas, even if they are just "keep him comfortable"...and there is nothing wrong with keeping your pet comfortable through it's end.

In fact, that is probably the best gift you can give, so if the vet can only offer a way to make the chameleon as comfortable as possible under your budget restrictions, then that's fine. That's a worthwhile course of action.

Hopefully your vet will offer other alternatives.
 
The important thing is to find out. That lets you decide what you can do.

I've been in the position of saying to the vet "no, I can't afford that"....it's hard but a good vet will step up to the plate with other ideas, even if they are just "keep him comfortable"...and there is nothing wrong with keeping your pet comfortable through it's end.

In fact, that is probably the best gift you can give, so if the vet can only offer a way to make the chameleon as comfortable as possible under your budget restrictions, then that's fine. That's a worthwhile course of action.

Hopefully your vet will offer other alternatives.

Yes, I completely agree that the important thing is just to find out.

I came here to ask first to see if I could avoid having to pay for another vet bill if I didn't have to. It appears I am just going to have to bring him in and get some bloodwork done.

Hopefully some more people with experience with kidney problems will be able to chime in and offer me some advice.

Thanks,
Jakedn
 
Don't give up on Waldo even if he does have kidney problems. I've read several stories on here about chams living a nice quality of life long past kidney problems. Just have bloodwork done as soon as you can and find out what it is for proper treatment.
 
Howdy Jake,

Back in 04/2005, when my now recently deceased (from cancer) Panther was about 10 months old; he showed signs of lethargy, poor coloration, gular edema and maybe even orangish urates. I took him to Dr. Greek. The lab results of the blood test showed that his Ca/Ph ratio was upside down (Phosphorus higher than Calcium). I remember the comment was that he is either showing signs of kidney failure or his diet was to blame. At the time, his diet had been supers, crickets and silkies. Two things flipped the ratio back; reducing the supers and 2 weeks of 0.1cc of Mylanta per day injected into a feeder. The next blood test had things back to normal and his other symptoms were all gone. Whew! Mylanta has various components that bind-up phosphorus and allow it to pass out of the system. I got lucky that it wasn't kidney failure :).

Note the calcium and phosphorus numbers in the before, after and normal charts.


Before Treatment:

BloodPanel1stResults_Page_1.jpg



After Treatment:

BloodPanel2ndTest.jpg


Normal Results:

BloodPanelNormalsHeader.jpg


BloodPanelNormals_Page_1.jpg


BloodPanelNormals_Page_2.jpg
 
Hey Jake, I have experienced this with my ambilobe months back. Almost a perfect match of the symptoms and causes that you currently have . He had been treated for parasites, always had orange urates and little appetite no matter how much he drank. I really think it was the foods I was giving which was also the same you give. Mine just pretty much ate nothing but supers though. They just dont have enough moisture in my opinion. I went with silkies and now almost feed exclusively mixed in with cricketts every once in while. The symptoms you and I had vanished almost insantly. All white pure urates, all though at first, very runny. His appeitite increased alot and he his casque and the sides of his head started to look nice and plump.

He is now pretty healthy, but he still only poops about once a week. That poop is a huge one, but doesnt have a smell like when he had problems and it is a nice white urate. Now, I dont have a fraction of the experience that Dave has but I still thought it might help instantly if you cant afford the vet bills now. So you might try some nice full grown silkies and give them a try for a couple days and see what happens. I hope this helps because I had the same issues months back and I really believe it was my fault in what I was gutloading and feeding. Good liuck
 
@Dave Weldon:

Thank you so much for that information, I sure hope it is just his diet. I did not know a main diet of crickets could do that to his phosphorous and calcium levels. I am even dusting each insect lightly in phos-free calcium. I really appreciate you sharing your experience.


@Matt C:

Thank you for sharing your experience as well. I also already have a shipment of horn worms and silk worms on its way that should be here soon. I sure hope that will fix the problem if it is purely his diet.
 
No problem Jake. My guess(hope so) is that the worms you ordered will do wonders for you cham. Im sure yours is different but my ambi cant stand hornworms but will eat as many silkies as I can give him. Every cham is differrent and if you see a dramatic change than if I were you keep them as a staple food for your cham. Good luck and keep us posted on the progress.
 
Update

I got my shipment of hornworms and silkworms in, Waldo eagerly took two hornworms and then turned his cheek to everything else I offered. For the past month or two he has never eaten less or more than two feeders each time he accepted food regardless of the type or size of the insect or the duration between feedings.

Luckily, I anticipated this because of the pattern I have noticed and gave him the largest horn worms I could find while I still felt comfortable that he could handle it. After he ate two horn worms and refused the third I offered a silkworm, he showed interest at first but then ignored it.

Tomorrow I will offer him some silkworms and hopefully he will accept them.

I will be updating again soon.

Jakedn
 
He took another hornworm and tried a silkworm today. He is also about to shed, starting to get some grayish areas.

No indication of his other symptoms getting better or worse. I will continue to monitor him.
 
Update

Waldo has eaten two more silkworms today, and had a half white urate!!! Do you think the parasite load he recently had could have caused his dehydration despite lots of water and now that I got rid of the parasites it allowed him to start rehydrating?

Anyways, this is greattt news! He may actually be on the road to recovery this time haha.
 
Waldo has eaten two more silkworms today, and had a half white urate!!! Do you think the parasite load he recently had could have caused his dehydration despite lots of water and now that I got rid of the parasites it allowed him to start rehydrating?

Anyways, this is greattt news! He may actually be on the road to recovery this time haha.

I guess it's possible, but who cares, :D Waldo is getting better and that's all that matters. Thanks for updating your thread and keeping everyone posted.
 
I guess it's possible, but who cares, :D Waldo is getting better and that's all that matters. Thanks for updating your thread and keeping everyone posted.

I suppose it doesn't really matter, but I am curious nonetheless and I may be able to help someone else down the line with a similar problem if I find out.
 
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