Plants for my enclosure

[Klyde O'Scope]

Calcium Oxalates are present in just about every popular cham plant, and at the same time, scares people away from trying others.

I've read all the positions. I just don't know enough about botany, toxicology, and herpetology (yet) to not be consternated.

Schefflera Amate is a great cham plant. Arbicola is not my fav in terms of look, but its very functional thanks to its thick stems.

I don't know fer sher [sic] which one I have; the tag just said, Schefflera.
It was green, bushy, and affordable, so I bought it.

 

[saradoggy10]

Like you, I'll be getting a panther so I stuck with anything that's just generally "non toxic". I believe philondreas is toxic (I know because I REALLY wanted it in there)
generally the "chameleon" plants are both non-toxic AND water sticks well to the leaves i.e. the pitcher plant.
I think it's odd though that golden pothos can be toxic but they're highly recommended. I would think you'll be safe as long as it has no spikes and isn't toxic.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

I believe philondreas is toxic (I know because I REALLY wanted it in there)

Ya wanna run that by us again please? Google choked on that spelling, and I have no idea what it should be in order to look it up. ? (I know because I REALLY wanted to look it up) ?

Did you mean:

phil andreas [is some dude on LinkedIn]
philodryas [is a snake]
philander
philanderer

No results containing all your search terms were found.
Your search - philondreas - did not match any documents.

Thanks!

 

[saradoggy10]

You just gotta use google right- as someone with dyslexia you can't expect me to remember that haha

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Point taken. Thanks again.

 

[snitz427]

lol..

What are you lol'ing? Twice?

 

[snitz427]

Philodendron are no more toxic than pothos. They are in the same plant family, and many of them (Philodendron, Pothos/Epipremnum, Monstera, Rhaphiadophora, etc) all contain excess/indegistable calcium oxalates. The general consensus is that a large amount must be consumed to be problematic, and most symptoms are relatively mild.

This gets regurgitated over and over, and I believe it is misleading. If you look up most of the “safe” plants, you’ll find most contain these calcium oxalates. As a matter of fact, there are MANY plants that appear on “cham safe” plant lists (FLCHAMS included) that are much more toxic. Many ferns have a toxicity level, passiflora/passionfruit vine, ficus, succulents, etc have much higher risks than the Philodendrons and the like.

 

[Bowieluna]

All parts of the ZZ are toxic and cause contact dermatitis, so ddef dont use that in a cham cage (but such a rad plant).

Philodendrons, Monstera, Scind, Algaonema, Pilea are ok. They have the same level/type of toxicity as pothos, which is low and not severe. I have many Monstera and Philodendrons in my enclosures - theyre perfect for chameleon setups!

Other species of plant can be more toxic though - definitely avoid ZZ... whar ele were you thinking?

Also, for your mature plants, keep in mind that the chameleons will tear them up a bit between their nails and accidental (or intentional) leaf tears while eating bugs on them. Just in case you have any you cant bear to see damaged. I have some huge pink princesses in Clarice’s cage, and my plant friends lose their mind that I’d let her climb on it

oh my gosh I’m dying that you have a pink princess in there! Thank you so much, all these comments are so helpful. I will definitely avoid putting the ZZ in there. I was also thinking about adding a zebra plant to the enclosure. As of right now I have a rubber tree, fiddle leaf fig, neon Pothos, calathea medallion, dracena lemon lime & several Mounted air plants on Wood branches. I wasn’t sure about the rubber tree because it produces a sap if the leaves break off. The only reason I included it in there was because I found sources that said they were okay. I have 3 large rubber trees in my living room that I let him climb often as well. I also like to rotate Some of my plants When I clean his cage so that they can dry out. I am wondering if the change of his surroundings stresses him out, or if it’s okay as long as he has proper coverage. I also have other plants that I have no intention of putting in his enclosure, like my collection of hoyas, but I do let him climb them during his free range time. Also I’m not sure about plumerias, which produce an irritating sap as well when leaves are broken Off. I let him on the plumerias when he is outside but I do monitor him the entire time. He does like to eat the grasshoppers and praying mantises off of the plumerias sometimes. This makes me nervous of course because I have no idea what those insects have ingested. But I have kind of had a hard time feeding him nocturnal Feeder insects because they Just don’t move around a lot during the day, and he seems to be disinterested in Dubia roaches. Anyways, I am more concerned with him eating the insects that could have eaten a plumeria leaf and then that Possibly being dangerous to him.

 

[Bowieluna]

You have a panther so you will not deal with what those of us that have Veileds deal with. Panthers do not eat their plants like a Veiled will. So for you it is understanding the plants your going to use. Making sure that they are not toxic as in produce a sap that may irritate them. IF it produces something harmful to a cat or dog then the risk is the same with a cham. If you have an extensive understanding in plants and know what each ones do then you can use your best judgement being as how you have a panther and not a veiled.

The reason why there are not extensive correct chameleon plant lists is that it would mean multiple keepers trying plants that have the potential to kill a cham because they are not typically used with them. So like the list below at this link is based fully on many keepers using these specific plants with their chameleons.
https://chameleonacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Chameleon-Plants-122819.pdf

Thank you so much, this was helpful! That certainly explains a lot about the current plant lists available. I do consistently see rubber trees as one of the recommended plants, although that one actually does produce an irritating sap. I do see some conflicting information though when it comes to chameleon care. I am still so new to this. It’s my first time every having a chameleon and of course I want to do everything right. That’s why I’m so grateful to have found this forum and that there are so many knowledgeable Cham owners willing to help!

 

[Beman]

Thank you so much, this was helpful! That certainly explains a lot about the current plant lists available. I do consistently see rubber trees as one of the recommended plants, although that one actually does produce an irritating sap. I do see some conflicting information though when it comes to chameleon care. I am still so new to this. It’s my first time every having a chameleon and of course I want to do everything right. That’s why I’m so grateful to have found this forum and that there are so many knowledgeable Cham owners willing to help!

Your welcome hun. I have all Veileds so I stick to the veiled tested plants only. But I also do not have the plant knowledge like @snitz427 and some of our other members have.
This is one of my favorite sites for thorough information https://chameleonacademy.com/

 

[snitz427]

Avoid Plumeria, its also toxic - and irritating to skin / eyes like ZZ. Zebra plant is non-toxic!

I would avoid the rubber tree, personally, because in my experience the leaves can kinda break off easily. Of course, my rubber plant was kinda neglected! I have a cham with an eye issue and all i can imagine is her rubbing her eyes and getting the irritating sap in there. My schefflera amate also weep sap when the leaves are snapped off, but its not easy to do that so im not worried about that plant.

 

[Bowieluna]

Calcium Oxalates are present in just about every popular cham plant, and at the same time, scares people away from trying others.

They are present in pothos, philodendron, monstera, scind, algaonema, and lots more. The general consensus is that you’d need to eat a lot of it to suffer any symptoms (which can be as mild as upset stomach and excess salivation).

Schefflera Amate is a great cham plant. Arbicola is not my fav in terms of look, but its very functional thanks to its thick stems.

Thank you! This explains a lot as to why these plants are always listed as “toxic” to dogs and cats but why plants like pothos are considered safe for chameleons. That’s what I think really confused me in the first place. Scheffleras and pothos are always on the list of plants toxic to cats, followed by a list of horrible symptoms, yet they’re some of the most recommended plants for chams. I guess you have to take into account that cats do have the potential to eat a lot, so that does alter the toxicity for them. Thanks so much! I love understanding these things more.

 

[Bowieluna]

Then I guess I'm covered, though it's not the tree version (and see below).

View attachment 276867

Today I tried arranging the plants I bought for the enclosure, but it appears I may have been a little too ambitious—no way they'll all fit in there. Not shown are the mass cane (and 4 other dracaenas), the Tradescantia zebrina, pitcher plant (species undetermined), spider plant (Chlorophytum comosum), and a couple more that escape me ATM.

I REALLY like some of those fancy-schmancy philodendrons; unfortunately they also have some pretty fancy-schmancy price tags, so I had to forgo them.

The whole "safe/unsafe for chameleons" thing has me beside myself with confusion & contradictions.
For example (and I know this has come up before, yet it still engenders consternation), Wikipedia's entry for Schefflera arboricola:



But wait.... there's MORE!

Then there's the List of Plants That Can Be Toxic To Reptiles from Reptiles Magazine, which includes things like Cherry, Horse Chestnut, Oak, Red Maple, virtually all of the fruit trees (bark), any of which would make dandy branches, and Golden Pothos (Epipremnum aureum) and English Ivy—perennials (pun intended) of enclosure-makers.

Oooh lovely plants! I had the same problem too with having too many and wanting this really full cage covered with plants but then not having enough space to put them all. I did have to get creative with hanging some of them, I was able to make some hangers out of jute twine. I also do stack some of the smaller plants into the pots of the larger trees. And thanks for posting the list of plants that are toxic to reptiles, I will definitely be referencing that! Surprisingly pothos is on that list.

 

[Bowieluna]

Avoid Plumeria, its also toxic - and irritating to skin / eyes like ZZ. Zebra plant is non-toxic!

I would avoid the rubber tree, personally, because in my experience the leaves can kinda break off easily. Of course, my rubber plant was kinda neglected! I have a cham with an eye issue and all i can imagine is her rubbing her eyes and getting the irritating sap in there. My schefflera amate also weep sap when the leaves are snapped off, but its not easy to do that so im not worried about that plant.

Ah yes, good point! I do feel like the leaves can snap off easily on the rubber plant so I will remove that one!