Philosophical Question

[JaCoCham]

As a chameleon enthusiast and caretaker who cares deeply about these animals, sometimes I wonder if pet chameleons can tell that they are in captivity. Especially imports. Do the imports feel a decreased quality of life going from living free and able to wander wherever they desire to being limited to a habitat? Sometimes I allow my CB Panther Chameleon on a branch near my window to get natural light and heat, and he appears to stare longingly at the outside world. Am I just reading into this behavior and anthropomorphizing him, or is there something behind this? Do wild chameleons live "happier" lives than captive ones, or do proper care and habitats meet their needs and satisfy them? Also, do you all think chameleons ever get bored of there same old habitats? Is it helpful to move plants and branches around from time to time to stimulate them? Interested in your feedback.

 

[elizaann2]

Very interesting thoughts. I don’t think we will ever really know how they feel. And both sides can be argued. in captivity they get healthy, consistent meals, no predators and ideal weather conditions daily. However they are always confined to their enclosure. Do they miss/need to move around more?

 

[MissSkittles]

I often wonder similarly, especially about wild caught. While I’m sure we are anthropomorphizing a decent amount, these are living feeling animals. What must it be like to be out there and free one day and caged the next? Yes, they are kept safe from adverse weather, predators and untreated illness, but at what cost? They lose so much - unlimited space and ability to go wherever they want, fresh air, sunshine, interacting with their always changing environment, breeding, and a more diverse diet. Once in captivity they are then subject to us humans and unfortunately, the ignorance of some who keep them poorly.
Veileds I find to be a true dilemma. In the wild, the vast majority only live for one year. In captivity they can live up to 7-8 years. Unfortunately though, they are perhaps by number the biggest victims of captivity with far too many suffering and dying from preventable causes such as mbd, egg binding and other related to lack of proper husbandry. The lives of veileds are assigned a lesser value than other species, probably because of their hardiness and ease of breeding. Is the lifespan worth this?
Breeding is another issue and the one I most often have to bite my tongue over. I get so upset when someone shows up who doesn’t even have a full concept of proper husbandry that is planning to or already has bred their chameleons. Usually they are here asking questions that had they actually taken some time and learned before doing, they would know. Just because you can breed your animals, doesn’t mean you should.
Before I get any more carried away and start ranting even more, I’d better shut up.

 

[kinyonga]

In the ”old” days, when I first started keeping chameleons, they were all wild caught. So would come in in good condition and others were really sick. It was, IMHO, due to the way they were caught and kept during the importation….but I’m sure a big part of it was the stress of being caged in captivity.

Say that you had five Fischer male chameleons come in and they all looked to be in reasonable condition and of about the same age….you might end up with 2 left at the end. There were several reasons for this,
IMHO, and that’s all it is..my opinion…some acclimate better to captivity to others and get over the stress and do ok. Some just don’t adapt to captivity.

We also contributed to this death. Some had a heavy parasite load, and if you tried to treat it right away, you could very easily kill the chameleon in the process. Live parasites, up to a point, the chameleons system could cope with…but if you killed them all off at once, you made the parasites into “garbage“ that the chameleon’s system then had to get rid of…and how much can a system handle? Also, some of that “garbage” likely became toxic to the chameleon. (We learned to let the chameleon have some time to settle into captivity before trying to treat the parasites as long as it was remaining healthy while we did this…and if/when we did treat them…do it more slowly to give the system time to cope with the “garbage”.

IMHO, some species are less nervous and secretive than others and I’m sure this is why some species could cope and others couldn’t too.

You said…”Sometimes I allow my CB Panther Chameleon on a branch near my window to get natural light and heat, and he appears to stare longingly at the outside world”….what makes you think he’s longing for the outside world? Do his colours change when he’s there?
We also learned not to be in the chameleon’s face any more than necessary at first, to give it time to settle in.

There are some studies on what one chameleon’s individual range might be in the wild, and it might surprise you on how small it is.
I’ll try to find the studies…I know I posted them on here if you want to look for them.

As for “boredom“ in their habitat…that still happens with captive bred ones nowadays.

This isn’t a complete answer…but it’s the best I can do! I still can’t read chameleons’ minds!

 

[kinyonga]

I found this article to be interesting although it’s mainly concerning larger animals….
https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/how-does-captivity-affect-wild-animals

More food for thought…
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/bambi-or-bessie-are-wild-animals-happier/

 

[JaCoCham]

I found this article to be interesting although it’s mainly concerning larger animals….
https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/how-does-captivity-affect-wild-animals

More food for thought…
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/bambi-or-bessie-are-wild-animals-happier/

Interesting articles. Thank you

 

[elizaann2]

I came across this YouTube today, thought it was interesting and I would share. Food for thought.

 

[JacksJill]

I've always guessed that they are appraising the trees/shrubs they might move to next to hide better, hunt or expand their territory. I'm confident they are always looking for a taller tree to own. Does it involve real longing? I can't say.

 

[dinomom]

I've always guessed that they are appraising the trees/shrubs they might move to next to hide better, hunt or expand their territory. I'm confident they are always looking for a taller tree to own. Does it involve real longing? I can't say.

Right- if the tree they are in is tall and chock full of bugs I doubt they are looking to move!