Panther with Edema - vet advice needed

[pigglett79]

Hello,

About 3 weeks ago I began to notice that George had some edema around his neck. it was hardly noticeable at the time and then progressed to much more noticeable quickly. When I touch the area it feels like fluid inside and does move around when pressed.

I of course racked my brain to try to figure out what could have caused this. The only change I can think of is that I started blending the gutload items and freezing them in to small cubes to make my life easier. But in doing this I felt the more the better and put all sorts of items in there to blend together.

After talking with Ferretinmyshoes, I think it is due to over supplementation from the gutload. He likely got high doses of vitamin A from the mix of ingredients even though he eats more worms than he does roaches and crickets.

I have been offering lots of horn worms for increased water intake, increased mistings to get him to drink more, good doses of real sunshine and I adjusted my gutload. I now blend a few ingredients together in two batches, each of which has different ingredients so that I can alternate them.

I have not seen much improvement yet, but I hear it takes several weeks to improve. I am just hoping that it was from the gutload and that there isn't something else going on.

Here are a couple pics so that someone with experience can let me know if it looks like something else.





thanks

 

[carol5208]

My panther Lenny has Edema. I took him in over a year ago from another forum member who said he had the edema which he called "man boobs" for atleast 1 1/2 yrs plus prior. So basically he has been living with it for 2 1/2-3 yrs. He is between 4 1/2 to 5 yrs old. There was some conflicting info given to me on his birthdate. Anyways, I have tried everything to get rid of it, changing supplements, cutting back on supplements, no supplements, changing gutload, changing prey items...it gets better but never goes away. When I first got him, about 2 months later it was pretty much gone and then reappeared again. Had him to the vet, and he said there is not much to be done other than changing things up to see if it goes away. At this point, I know by now it is not going to kill him. Lenny's is not really around his neck but he has two sacks(one in front of each leg) that increase and decrease in size from day to day. It never fully goes away. Lenny eats like a horse, drinks, shoots his tongue perfectly and gets around ok. I had a few issues with him not grabbing so well with his front legs but he can climb the sides of his cage and climbs to his favorite sleeping spot every night. I really do not know if anyone REALLY knows the cause of it. I mean actual proof that says, yes, it is your supplements or this item of gutload is causing it. If you find anything out please let me know!!! But do know that your chameleon can live a full life with it. Lenny is proof!

 

[pigglett79]

Thanks Carol. I have been just sick about it. He does act totally normal. He roams around and eats like a champ, no tongue issues or grip issues. His only problem is that he is terrified of the outdoors, so he doesn't enjoy the sun treatments, but will hopefully get used to it over time.

Thank you for your reply, it does make me feel better.

 

[carol5208]

Lenny basically has lived and lives outdoors in the beautiful florida sunshine since I got him and still it really has done nothing. Not saying it might not help your guy. I have just kinda surrendered to it. I mean, I don't know what else to do. I read a thing before about giving Mylanta and from what the article states, the edema went away. I was always just kinda scared to give my cham Mylanta. Like I said Lenny is proof it is not a death sentence. He has outlived many chameleons with this condition. I know it is upsetting. Maybe his will go away. I guess what works for one, may not work for another either, but if you do get rid of it, let me know what you did. I am open to all suggestions, but have tried just about everything to no avail.

 

[lisagr07]

Hey piglett... Our panther Krayola has had "man boobs" since we adopted him.. They seem to come and go, when he can get out in the summer they seem to go down/decrease..... I don't think the edema is detrimental to his health , he has no issues otherwise..
I don't know the cause,, just wanted you to know that I believe it's more of a cosmetic issue than a health issue!!!
Here's Krayola sporting his "man boobs",,,, I mean edema!!!!

[

 

[erik775]

Yup my sambava has edema also...sometimes it looks really bad but sometimes it looks like its not there I've tried everything to get rid of it but nothing ...

 

[kinyonga]

Unless there is something you use in your gutload that contains prEformed vitamin A your chameleon shouldn't be getting an overdose of vitamin A from the gutload changes. However...what are you putting in the gutload? Anything that contains goiturinoids (sp?)?? What supplements do you use specifically and how often for each?

 

[carol5208]

Unless there is something you use in your gutload that contains prEformed vitamin A your chameleon shouldn't be getting an overdose of vitamin A from the gutload changes. However...what are you putting in the gutload? Anything that contains goiturinoids (sp?)?? What supplements do you use specifically and how often for each?

Lynda, do you think gutload items can cause the edema? Do you think Vit A overdose causes it?. When I got Lenny he had the edema for about 1 1/2 yrs plus when I got him. The previous owner said he really didn't supplement him with anything. Used some calcium when he was younger and that was about it. Fed him crickets only and they were fed Romaine here and there as he put it. I have done a lot of different things to get rid of it. I have used many different items in gutload but nothing really makes a difference.

 

[pigglett79]

Well its nice to hear that I am not the only one with a boy with mysterious edema. I do so much research and keep spread sheets and really just go over the top to be sure I am doing what is right, and still my boy has edema. Its frustrating.

In my gut load I alternate between various ingredients. I follow sandrachameleons blog to be sure not to use any ingredients that are harmful.

 

[pigglett79]

Unless there is something you use in your gutload that contains prEformed vitamin A your chameleon shouldn't be getting an overdose of vitamin A from the gutload changes. However...what are you putting in the gutload? Anything that contains goiturinoids (sp?)?? What supplements do you use specifically and how often for each?

I use minerall outdoor on roaches and crickets (they dont eat many crickets, mostly just roaches).

I use Rapashy calcium plus about twice a month and repti calcium with D3 about once or twice a month depending on sunshine exposure.

In the gut load I alternate greens, mainly mustard, dandelion and arugula. I also use a couple of the following (usually 2-3 items alternated each week) butternut squash, oranges, red bell pepper, carrots, celery,

I add some sunflower seeds and

I also alternate between repashy superload and dino fuel.