Panther Chameleon setup/breeding

[twatts704]

Hello all I am new to the forums so if I am posting this in the wrong section then I apologize.

My name is Ted and I live in houston,tx. I have recently bought a 6 month old panther chameleon and am looking for any helpful tips and advice on taking care of him. I am also interested in breeding these guys and actually am heading to Repticon in Pasadena tomorrow to look for a female. I know quite a bit more about breeding than I do the actual setups and environments both will need to do so but I wanted to get some advice on maybe conditions the cages should be in to help the process of mating.

I am under the assumption that the female needs to be at least a year or big enough to be able to lay eggs (so they don't get lodged) and be sexually mature and the male about the same age as well. However, I have heard a lot of misconception on what cages are better for Panthers. I have heard that tall glass aquariums are fine for them but at the same time I have heard that they don't give enough ventilation. I am afraid if I put him and her in a tall screen cage (separate of course) then It would not be prime for breeding?

Any advice on cage types I should lean towards for better lively hood for the both, plants (prefer fake), lighting, misting system, and even breeding tips would be greatly appreciated.

- Ted

 

[JonRich]

https://www.chameleonforums.com/everyone-who-knows-you-cant-keep-chams-glass-31937/

 

[carol5208]

Hello all I am new to the forums so if I am posting this in the wrong section then I apologize.

My name is Ted and I live in houston,tx. I have recently bought a 6 month old panther chameleon and am looking for any helpful tips and advice on taking care of him. I am also interested in breeding these guys and actually am heading to Repticon in Pasadena tomorrow to look for a female. I know quite a bit more about breeding than I do the actual setups and environments both will need to do so but I wanted to get some advice on maybe conditions the cages should be in to help the process of mating.

I am under the assumption that the female needs to be at least a year or big enough to be able to lay eggs (so they don't get lodged) and be sexually mature and the male about the same age as well. However, I have heard a lot of misconception on what cages are better for Panthers. I have heard that tall glass aquariums are fine for them but at the same time I have heard that they don't give enough ventilation. I am afraid if I put him and her in a tall screen cage (separate of course) then It would not be prime for breeding? Mott of us use the screen cages 24 X 24 X 48 preferred for adult panthers. Females can be kept in smaller as they are not as large as the males but I always say the more room the better. Most of use use the tube style Reptisun 5.0 for uvb and for basking uva we use white housebulbs. you want your basking temps to be about 90 or so for young panthers and ambient cage temps around 75. Humidity around 50% with spikes after misting. You can run a dripper and use live plants to help maintain humidity.

Any advice on cage types I should lean towards for better lively hood for the both, plants (prefer fake), lighting, misting system, and even breeding tips would be greatly appreciated.

- Ted

hi Ted and welcome to the forums. I Am just curious as to how you know about breeding but do not know anything about how to keep them?. Personally, I would master keeping them healthy for a long period of time before I would even consider breeding. There is really no particular set up that is going to make them breed more that I am aware of. You put the male in the with the female and if she is receptive to him, then they mate. The cage should have no real bearing on whether they will mate or not as far as I know.

 

[twatts704]

hi Ted and welcome to the forums. I Am just curious as to how you know about breeding but do not know anything about how to keep them?. Personally, I would master keeping them healthy for a long period of time before I would even consider breeding. There is really no particular set up that is going to make them breed more that I am aware of. You put the male in the with the female and if she is receptive to him, then they mate. The cage should have no real bearing on whether they will mate or not as far as I know.

I work at a reptile shop where others have bred them before and are willing to work with me and help me. I am curious as to how a screen cage will work because I have heard (internet not sure if it is true) that when a female is pregnant that she will go to the base of the cage and dig a hole big enough for her and room enough to lay the eggs.

As far as a screen cage goes versus glass, I thank you very much for showing me the post because I was under the impression that they could live in either or. I am going to invest in a bigger screen cage then. Also would an exo terra cage be okay or does it have to be a screen cage?

 

[carol5208]

I work at a reptile shop where others have bred them before and are willing to work with me and help me. I am curious as to how a screen cage will work because I have heard (internet not sure if it is true) that when a female is pregnant that she will go to the base of the cage and dig a hole big enough for her and room enough to lay the eggs.

As far as a screen cage goes versus glass, I thank you very much for showing me the post because I was under the impression that they could live in either or. I am going to invest in a bigger screen cage then. Also would an exo terra cage be okay or does it have to be a screen cage?

with the screen cages, people put in a laying bin for the female to lay eggs. Usually a 12 in X 12 in minimum container filled with moist wet play sand will do.

 

[Bernie]

Have you kept Chameleons before? Why do you want to breed?

Dont try and run before walking! Jumping straight into breeding is asking for trouble IMO

 

[twatts704]

Have you kept Chameleons before? Why do you want to breed?

Dont try and run before walking! Jumping straight into breeding is asking for trouble IMO

I would completely agree with you, however I am getting help from people who have kept and bred chameleons and snakes for 20 years. The reason why I sound so clueless to the world of breeding/cages for them is because I have not gone to them for specifics on my chameleon. They have been out of town for the past week and I got him last week. I understand some of your concerns when I am asking alarming simple questions and then I am talking about breeding myself but I assure you that I am not a clueless person who just likes chameleons. I have kept other reptiles for years and have just come upon chameleons recently. I have kept such things as iguana's, box turtles, tortoises, snakes, and various mammals as well. I have bred many box turtles over the years too and have been very successful. Hopefully this puts you all a little more at ease. The reason for me coming and asking the questions here is because I know chameleons are a different situations. I am more than able to provide my chameleon and further chameleons with the proper equipment they need.

 

[pssh]

The search feature will be a tremendous help. The female should be a year old as a general guideline so that she is big enough to grow the eggs in her without it taking away from her development. So at 1 year they are usually mostly done growing and the eggs will not cause issues for her. Males can be younger and some will breed at 6 months old, but many won't until 9 months or more.

In warm places, screen cages are usually preferred over glass because temps can be kept down. Laying bins are usually 12"x8" and 12" deep or larger. Do a search for more details.

 

[carol5208]

I would completely agree with you, however I am getting help from people who have kept and bred chameleons and snakes for 20 years. The reason why I sound so clueless to the world of breeding/cages for them is because I have not gone to them for specifics on my chameleon. They have been out of town for the past week and I got him last week. I understand some of your concerns when I am asking alarming simple questions and then I am talking about breeding myself but I assure you that I am not a clueless person who just likes chameleons. I have kept other reptiles for years and have just come upon chameleons recently. I have kept such things as iguana's, box turtles, tortoises, snakes, and various mammals as well. I have bred many box turtles over the years too and have been very successful. Hopefully this puts you all a little more at ease. The reason for me coming and asking the questions here is because I know chameleons are a different situations. I am more than able to provide my chameleon and further chameleons with the proper equipment they need.

It sounds like you want to do what is right and provide a healthy environment for your chameleons. We can help you with that!!! Keeping chams is quite different from Iguanas and tortoises I can tell you that much cause I have had them both. It is just like an exotic vet who knows reptiles but does not at all KNOW chameleons. See it on here all the time. There seems to be a misconception with this I have seen that people assume because they have kept reptiles then they can just ease right into chameleons. They are a special breed and require theirr own distinct care. Iguanas and tortoises will eat fruits an veggies, panthers will not, atleast 99% of them dont. They eat live feeders and you need to keep quite a variety of them on hand. All the feeders need to be fed WELL. This can run into some money, unless you plan on breeding your feeders. Just a heads up on that.

 

[twatts704]

It sounds like you want to do what is right and provide a healthy environment for your chameleons. We can help you with that!!! Keeping chams is quite different from Iguanas and tortoises I can tell you that much cause I have had them both. It is just like an exotic vet who knows reptiles but does not at all KNOW chameleons. See it on here all the time. There seems to be a misconception with this I have seen that people assume because they have kept reptiles then they can just ease right into chameleons. They are a special breed and require theirr own distinct care. Iguanas and tortoises will eat fruits an veggies, panthers will not, atleast 99% of them dont. They eat live feeders and you need to keep quite a variety of them on hand. All the feeders need to be fed WELL. This can run into some money, unless you plan on breeding your feeders. Just a heads up on that.

What do you mean by feeders? I am feeding him Large crickets about 6-8 of them a day (nothing to big). The crickets that I give him are from the store I work at so I don't ever have to pay for them so it is not a big deal on that aspect. If there is another type of food I should be feeding him by all means let me know. I don't know if it depends on the species either considering I have an Ambilobe Panther Chameleon. Also I have to agree on the tank he is in, I was very skeptical at first to get it over the screen cage (not thinking about the ventilation at the time) and have decided to go with a screen cage until I can get something made for him that is more of a terrarium over an aquarium. As far as them not being the same as other reptiles, I completely agree which is why I came here to find some advice. I don't pretend to know everything about chameleons just like I don't for other reptiles as well. I just take what I do know and apply it and learn the rest along the way from either experience or others.

Oh and another quick question. What type of substrate should I use at the bottom? I put cypress mulch down for some of my snakes because it retains moisture a lot better than others. Right now I have him on reptibark which I absolutely hate and want to get out of there ASAP. I have Cypress Mulch here at the house too and am wondering if that could be used instead? And also if I were to get a screen cage what type of fake plant could I use in there? Would prefer a fake plant over a real one.

 

[pssh]

Paper towels or nothing is the best substrate. If he eats any bark/substrate he can become impacted and die from it.

 

[carol5208]

As far as feeders, you want to provide more of a variety than crickets. Think about all the bugs they must eat in th wild. They often times get bored with the same old feeders and go on hunger strikes. What are you feeding your crickets? Most of the pet stores feed potatoes and water cubes which is basically no nutrition at all. The bugs in the wild feed on plants and such and the nutrients get passed down the food chain. Feeding crickets that are not fed well is like feeding a shell. So you need to "gutload" your crickets with fresh fruits and vegetables as well as a dry gutload that you can make or buy such as cricket crack. Go to member Sandrachameleons page. She is our resident gutload specialist and it will give you an idea of what I am talking about. You can feed dubia roaches, which can be gutloaded like the crickets, superworms, also gutloadable, silkworms and hornworms which can be purchased online from breeders, but you have to buy chow to feed them for them sto stay alive. You can also feed phoenix worms, moths(which can be wild caught) certain types of grasshoppers, mantids which can be purchased etc. You can see where it can all get expensive. Variety is a big key to their health. you also need to dust your feeders with three types of supplements. Calcium without d3 at every feeding, calcium with d3 twice a month, and also a multi vitamin twice monthly.

 

[ataraxia]

Im going to give you advice on keeping a chameleon at the moment. I think once this is mastered we can then give you advice to go on to breeding. If you cant take care of a 3 month on to adult. NO WAY would you be able to rear young.

Cage: You have many options here. You can fabricate your own, free range or buy a pre-fab screen cage. I personally like to graduate cage sizes as a chameleon grows. A chameleon 1-4 months a 16x15x20 screen is perfect. Allows them to hunt efficiently. From 4-8 months i will keep them in a 18x18x36 and then a minimum cage size of an adult should be 24x24x48' SCREEN. Put in as much rope, vines and live plants as you can. Live plants will help with the humidity among other things. Be sure to use non toxic plants. Basic chameleon safe plants schefflera, ficus benjimina, hibiscus and pathos. Replant all pots with plain top soil. If you dont want any bugs microwave or bake the soil. Put the cage as high up in the room as you can. Not near any vents, exterior doors, fans or windows.

Lighting 10-12 hours: You have many option here also. UVB is crucial, your chameleon will not live without it! A 5.0 reptisun, reptiglo, zilla tropical linear tube (length depends on cage size) and a regular house hold bulb for basking. The house bulb watt will depend on how far your nearest branch is from the light and your ambient room temps. If you have live plants in the cage. You will want to put a 6800K plant light over the cage as well.
**Weather permitting take your chameleon outside as much as possible.
***Change UVB bulbs every 6 months.

Temps: Basking temp 90* ambient temps 72* measure by digital gauges. A 10-15* degree night time drop in temps is great. I dont recommend going below 50*. If temps get to low at night use a ceramic heat emitter. Absolutely no light at night.

Hydration: Couple of options here as well. Automated systems like a mist king, aquazamp, monsoon are great. You can get the manually pump sprayers, battery operated sprayers and typical bottle sprayers. Misting sessions should consist of 2-5 minutes/2-3 times a day. Another great addition to add to complement your misting schedule is a dripper. It is very important that your cage dries out between watering sessions. Drainage is key for some set ups.

Humidity: Fluctuating humidity is best. 50-80% is ideal.

Food (Feed appropriate sized food. The size should be no larger than the distance between the animals eyes.): Gutload feeders (24 hours before feeding). Gut load ingredients listed below. Fruits and veggies are a simple solution hydration and extra nutrient for most feeder like crickets, dubai, discoides, turkish red runner roaches. All of these should be considered your chameleons main staple diets. Silk worms and horn worms are great snacks. You can also wild collect feeder but be careful where you collect make sure it is free of pesticides. Katydids, cicadas, moths, locust and bees to list a few.
**I do not recommend super worms or meal worms. Chameleons absolutely love them. Abused (using them as a staple) the only problem is if they are fed off without properly gut loading. It is guaranteed your chameleon will refuse any other food. Then it is a matter of time before the refuse these insects. They are poorly nutritional balance in the bran food/bedding they are kept in. You can use the same gut load ingredients listed below ot make these insect more balanced. i still strongly recommend if you do choose to feed these off to only feed at the end of a feeding as a snack only. Limit to only 2-3. This recommendation is from my personal school of hard knocks.
***Wax worms should only be used as snacks also. I dont recommend using them. In excessive amounts. These have caused impaction in chameleons.

Supplements: Plain phosphorus free calcium every feeding and Reptivite twice a month. Panthers in general are sensitive to VitA sources we are able to provide in captivity. Providing a product with preformed VitA will solve this issue. You have to be cautious when using this. Any instance of a preformed vitamin, a animal can overdose leading to some serious health issues.

Gutload: Ingredients compliments of sandrachameleon.
alfalfa (protein, vitamins including K)
kelp (iodine, calcium, magnesium)
Dried, shredded dandelion leaves (calcium, vitamins)
sunflower seeds (B vitamins, folate, potasium, etc)
Sesame seed (calcium, iron, copper, magnesium, maganese, selenium)
Raw pumpkin and squash seeds (Protein, Vitamin K, Iron, Copper, Magnesium)
dried mixed cranberries and blueberries (sweetness, antioxidants)
ground (dead and dry) garry oak and maple tree leaves (tanins, fibre)
roasted seaweed (as used for maki sushi)
hemp seed (Essential Fatty Acids, essential amino acids, protein, fibre)
bee pollen
spirulina
brewers yeast (B vitmains including folic acid, chromium, selenium)
slivered raw almonds (potasium, b vitamins, vitamin E)
organic dried coconut (yummy)
millet (fiber, niacin, thiamin, riboflavin, lecithin, iron, magnesium)
poppy seeds (calcium)
ginger powder (Vitamin E, B6, Iron, Magnesium, Potassium, Selenium, and Manganese)
Milk thistle (live kidney de tox)
Wolfs berry (Super foods)

Wet gut load (same ingredients as above):

Add Fresh vegetables and fruits. Blend with some water in a blender. Freeze in ice cube trays. Once frozen remove from trays and put in gallon zip lock baggies and freeze.


Good luck!

 

[Bernie]

I would completely agree with you, however I am getting help from people who have kept and bred chameleons and snakes for 20 years. The reason why I sound so clueless to the world of breeding/cages for them is because I have not gone to them for specifics on my chameleon. They have been out of town for the past week and I got him last week. I understand some of your concerns when I am asking alarming simple questions and then I am talking about breeding myself but I assure you that I am not a clueless person who just likes chameleons. I have kept other reptiles for years and have just come upon chameleons recently. I have kept such things as iguana's, box turtles, tortoises, snakes, and various mammals as well. I have bred many box turtles over the years too and have been very successful. Hopefully this puts you all a little more at ease. The reason for me coming and asking the questions here is because I know chameleons are a different situations. I am more than able to provide my chameleon and further chameleons with the proper equipment they need.

I am glad you are able to provide the appropriate equipment & needs. The people & advice on here combined with that should see you right.

I must admit I am rather baffled as to why someone would want to breed Chameleons before keeping them and learning about them first hand - especially as you already know they are a "different situation" to other reptiles/animals. Its not my place to speculate on the motives behind it but I wish you good luck.

 

[mcleodschams]

if you are breeding to make money off them thats very unlikely to happen just a heads up ahead of time its should be looked at to be more of a hobby.

 

[twatts704]

if you are breeding to make money off them thats very unlikely to happen just a heads up ahead of time its should be looked at to be more of a hobby.

No I am not doing it for the money more so the experience, however after coming here and talking to a few people it seems like just caring for one is going to be more than I expected. Having taken in everyone's advice I have decided to just tend to my male for a while and see how that turns out.

I went out to Repticon (Reptile Show) in Pasadena Texas today and found a female panther at around a year old but decided to ultimately pass on her for this very reason. Thank you all again for all the tips and help. I bought a Medium sized Zoo Med screen cage along with a creeping fig and hibiscus plant. I am going to be getting him out of that aquarium and into a new set up today. I am working on that as we speak. As soon as I have it all set up I will take a picture and post it here to let you all see how I did. Wish me luck

 

[Hoj]

lots of luck... sound like you are headed in the right direction

 

[twatts704]

lots of luck... sound like you are headed in the right direction

Yes I am and thank you all again for the tips I just spent 3 hours putting this set up together, making sure that everything was perfect.

I am going to work on feeding him a wide variety of things next and work on "gutloading"

Pics will be uploaded shortly Tell me what you think

 

[twatts704]

Yes I am and thank you all again for the tips I just spent 3 hours putting this set up together, making sure that everything was perfect.

I am going to work on feeding him a wide variety of things next and work on "gutloading"

Pics will be uploaded shortly Tell me what you think

I hope you all enjoy the photos and please tell me what you think. I spent a long time on it and worked very very hard.

 

[carol5208]

glad you decided to take a step back from the breeding. As you have learned, they require quite a bit of care. Good luck and remember we are all here to help you have a healthy and happy chameleon!!