Panther Chameleon setup/breeding

[ataraxia]

You have a great start..

Where is the basking bulb?
Why mulch for substrate?
Is that a male or female? From that pic and this is a best guess at this point... looks like a male?
How do you plan to gauge and monitor basking temps?


Note* If you notice eye closing through out the day. Look into a uvb linear tube bulb to replace the current bulb.

 

[twatts704]

You have a great start..

Where is the basking bulb?
Why mulch for substrate?
Is that a male or female? From that pic and this is a best guess at this point... looks like a male?
How do you plan to gauge and monitor basking temps?


Note* If you notice eye closing through out the day. Look into a uvb linear tube bulb to replace the current bulb.

It is a combo UVA/UVB basking bulb and keeps the temperature just right. I have a thermometer/humidity meter in the top left corner of the cage (pic might not show it) and yes he is a male and is 6 months old. From what I was told is they don't know if he is a red bar or blue bar but they said it looks like he is leaning more towards a blue bar. And the mulch is to just sit on the bottom of the cage to collect the extra drops of water from the spray (cypress mulch) to keep the moisture and humidity in the cage. So far he has not ventured down on it and has stayed high. The plants however are not in the mulch, but rather in a separate container on top of the cypress mulch.

 

[JonRich]

The mulch could become a impaction risk if any feeders ever made it down to the bottom of the cage and your Cham went after it and snag and eat some of the mulch in an attempt to get a cricket, worm etc.

Most keepers including myself leave the enclosure bottom bare. It's just for peace of mind.

 

[ataraxia]

So you are using probably a power sun or solar glo. I can garauntee with the bulb sitting on the top of the screen like that. He will sustain a burn. I can also guarantee your basking temp is not correct. The gauge sitting to the outside of the basking area isnt going to give you spot on readings. This gauge needs to be removable or a temp gauge with a probe. At any rate the probe or gauge needs to sit on the highest branch, vine or whatever he is able to perch directly under the light. NOT on the side of the cage. Keeping a MVB in a dome/reflector will shorten its life. these bulbs need good ventialtion. They are awesome bulbs but require a different set up.

Mulch at the bottom of the tank will more than likely cause some serious problems. Your chameleon isnt going to just stay at the top of the cage. He is going to explore every square inch of that enclosure. Making your enclosure safe for him is your doing. Out in the wild he doesnt have loose mulch to contend with in a confined area. Using this mulch to soak up water is a bad idea also. He will be defecating on this stuff regularly and combine that with your water sessions...this equals a very bad environment for your guy.

With your set up as it sits. You are asking for trouble. I highly recommend you doing more research.

 

[twatts704]

So you are using probably a power sun or solar glo. I can garauntee with the bulb sitting on the top of the screen like that. He will sustain a burn. I can also guarantee your basking temp is not correct. The gauge sitting to the outside of the basking area isnt going to give you spot on readings. This gauge needs to be removable or a temp gauge with a probe. At any rate the probe or gauge needs to sit on the highest branch, vine or whatever he is able to perch directly under the light. NOT on the side of the cage. Keeping a MVB in a dome/reflector will shorten its life. these bulbs need good ventialtion. They are awesome bulbs but require a different set up.

Mulch at the bottom of the tank will more than likely cause some serious problems. Your chameleon isnt going to just stay at the top of the cage. He is going to explore every square inch of that enclosure. Making your enclosure safe for him is your doing. Out in the wild he doesnt have loose mulch to contend with in a confined area. Using this mulch to soak up water is a bad idea also. He will be defecating on this stuff regularly and combine that with your water sessions...this equals a very bad environment for your guy.

With your set up as it sits. You are asking for trouble. I highly recommend you doing more research.

Even though I am still getting use to my panther chameleon I have to disagree with you on your logic of the cypress mulch being a bad idea. Chameleons in themselves are still reptiles and are not special in anyway when it comes to defecating in a cage. I have kept other reptiles who have been on cypress mulch who I also spray on a regular basis to keep humidity and moisture in the cage and it does just fine. As far as a feeder wandering down to the bottom it is impossible. He is already taught to eat out of my hand when I feed him and when I put his food in the cage that he doesn't want to eat out of my hand I put it in a plastic cup and tear the hopper legs off (have not switched up the food yet) and they can not gain traction on the plastic, making it impossible for them to wander in the cage and possibly bite my chameleon. A regular switching of the bedding and not being neglectful to that matter will alleviate any of the problems you are talking about with the bedding. I understand that leaving the bedding with nothing is good for you but I think I am going to keep it the way it is and see how it does for him. As far as the bulb goes I am interested and will look into getting him something else. If this is a long tube bulb that I need to invest in then so be it. If you could recommend me a bulb for the cage or certain brand I would be more than willing to go tomorrow and remedy that problem.

 

[ChappyMcChap]

I would completely agree with you, however I am getting help from people who have kept and bred chameleons and snakes for 20 years. The reason why I sound so clueless to the world of breeding/cages for them is because I have not gone to them for specifics on my chameleon. They have been out of town for the past week and I got him last week. I understand some of your concerns when I am asking alarming simple questions and then I am talking about breeding myself but I assure you that I am not a clueless person who just likes chameleons. I have kept other reptiles for years and have just come upon chameleons recently. I have kept such things as iguana's, box turtles, tortoises, snakes, and various mammals as well. I have bred many box turtles over the years too and have been very successful. Hopefully this puts you all a little more at ease. The reason for me coming and asking the questions here is because I know chameleons are a different situations. I am more than able to provide my chameleon and further chameleons with the proper equipment they need.

Not all reptiles are the same. Yes some have similar care requirements, but chameleons are at the dramatic end of the spectrum of what they require to thrive in captivity. Some reptiles arent as sensitive to their environment as chameleons, this doesn't mean what's good for those species is good for chameleons. All these methods have faced years of scrupulation and analysis. Substrate is bad, it can kill a chameleon. It may not kill an iguana or snake but they are only similar in that they have scales. It's bad news if you want to keep a happy healthy pet, or somehow breed them one day.

 

[twatts704]

Not all reptiles are the same. Yes some have similar care requirements, but chameleons are at the dramatic end of the spectrum of what they require to thrive in captivity. Some reptiles arent as sensitive to their environment as chameleons, this doesn't mean what's good for those species is good for chameleons. All these methods have faced years of scrupulation and analysis. Substrate is bad, it can kill a chameleon. It may not kill an iguana or snake but they are only similar in that they have scales. It's bad news if you want to keep a happy healthy pet, or somehow breed them one day.

I have a very hard time understanding something, and by all means please jump in and explain it because I am at a loss here. How is substrate bad news for a chameleon and will kill a chameleon? What is your logic behind it? Have chameleons out in the wild just not been around ground level? Granted I understand that chameleons don't spend all day on the ground level in the wild but surely out in a forest where the ground is moist and wet constantly (understand it's different because it is outside and not in a cage) they seem to do just fine? I just don't understand the logic and would like to know why it is such a terrible thing to have a substrate that has been proven to hold moisture and humidity. The problem with a wired cage like this is the fact that humidity gets lost very fast. I know that a terrarium is probably better for them but right now this is what I am working with and something have to counter balance certain aspects.

 

[carol5208]

I believe he means it can kill them if they injest the substrate. If your chameleons shoots for a cricket or other prey at the bottom of the cage(and it happens if you let feeders loose or they can escape from cup feeding even)and they take in a piece of bark they can die from impaction. It has happened before. There was a member on here about a week ago that said they wished they had listened about not using substrate for that very reason. Of course in the wild, they venture to the ground from time to time. We are forcing them to hunt for their prey in a 2 foot by 2foot cage. They have no choice at times but to go to the bottom of the cage to retrieve their food. Why take the chance of it happening? Same goes for using little rocks in your cage in your potted plants or for decoration. There was a member whose cham ate the rocks. He had to wait it out to see if the cham would pass the rocks or become blocked. He got lucky. It is just a better safe than sorry thing really. It is up to you to use substrate, but I personally do not. It makes for easy cage cleaning without it. Also the bark or whatever you use is gonna get wet and moldy eventually from all the misitings and dripping of water. That could create condtions for respiratory infections which are a very common illness in chameleons in captivitiy. Again, of course there is ground cover in the wild, but the chameleons in the wild are not confined to a 2 foot by 2 foot area and are free to move abouy and breath in the fresh air. hope this somewhat explains what you were wondering about!

 

[ataraxia]

Even though I am still getting use to my panther chameleon I have to disagree with you on your logic of the cypress mulch being a bad idea. Chameleons in themselves are still reptiles and are not special in anyway when it comes to defecating in a cage.

Yes, my man you are correct. Poop is poop.

I have kept other reptiles who have been on cypress mulch who I also spray on a regular basis to keep humidity and moisture in the cage and it does just fine.

This is a forums and everyone is entitled to an opinion. Whether or not it is best fora certain animal will be determined in due time.

This sounds just like me with english walnut and bearded dragons. I use to keep a couple of my "show off" males that were in display cages in english walnut. I too container fed. That was my stand point behind thinking you can use any substrate as long as you do it correctly. Well Mr.Wilson stopped eating, pooping and got super sickly looking. He would only drink..I thought i was going to loose him. Well after about a month and a half of this he finally pooped and for literally three days straight. He pooped out nothing but english walnut. Lesson learned the hard way...No walnut in any dragon cage. Kept dragons in this stuff for years!! Then this happens..I hope you wise up and knock down the brick wall and take advice from people that have learned the hard way.

As far as a feeder wandering down to the bottom it is impossible. He is already taught to eat out of my hand when I feed him and when I put his food in the cage that he doesn't want to eat out of my hand I put it in a plastic cup and tear the hopper legs off (have not switched up the food yet) and they can not gain traction on the plastic, making it impossible for them to wander in the cage and possibly bite my chameleon.

So, you have owned this chameleon a couple days or even a week. Not one time while hand feeding did a insect get loose from your grip..Not one feeder did the chameleon strike but managed to drop it? I use milk jug containers, i also pinch the rear legs off and somehow i will have wondering crickets from time to time. here is a pic of one of my females cages. You will see in the pot sand, soil and sphagnum moss. Around that pot is bare. Occassionally i will see a escaped cricket from that milk jug running down around the outside of the pot or crawling back up the screen .

A regular switching of the bedding and not being neglectful to that matter will alleviate any of the problems you are talking about with the bedding.

Have you observed your chameleon tasting random things throughout the cage yet? Clearly not. My little ambanja was biting at a dam twig the other day..

I understand that leaving the bedding with nothing is good for you but I think I am going to keep it the way it is and see how it does for him.

This could be a hard lesson learned. Just like to give you good advice that wasnt read.

As far as the bulb goes I am interested and will look into getting him something else. If this is a long tube bulb that I need to invest in then so be it. If you could recommend me a bulb for the cage or certain brand I would be more than willing to go tomorrow and remedy that problem.

I am not stating to replace your current bulb. I am stating you will need to do certain things for it to be usefull to your chameleon. 1. remove the reflector and either buy a dome stand or figure some way to susupend it above the cage. 2. buy a thermometer just for your basking area and adjust the bulb to basking site accordingly.

 

[Whatcamo]

Agreed with the bulb my Cham picks his MV bulb over anything else I have for him and I have a reptiglo pc a reptisun 5.0 tube and the mercury vapor bulb is a fluker's sun spot so where I agree with the bulb is you do need a thermometer with a probe so you can read the ambient air temp under the bulb in the basking spot don't go out spending more money just research and spend less with proper goods the first time

 

[ChappyMcChap]

It may not surely kill the chameleon but it will certainly make his and your life harder. Cypress mulch doesn't occur naturally in their environment it's manmade. If you don't have impactation issues, you will have sanitation and health issues. There are much better ways to keep the humidity up, live plants and frequent misting are a way, humidifiers and foggers are another way. It may cost the chameleon his life for you to figure out that it causes more problems than it fixes, as it has with many chameleons and their owners in the past.

 

[twatts704]

Oh my... looking back at this I have come aa LONG way haha thanks again to all those who started me off in the right direction. I would like to say that I am doing a pretty good job now

 

[lemurian25]

Potted Plants and Substrate

Hi,
I've been reading this thread with interest, round after round of your education. My Ambanja panther is now one and a half years old, and I got him at 3 months old. He's fabulous! Lumen would be happy to eat dirt unabatedly, it seems. He doesn't have anything on his cage floor but potted plants, and even though his plants were all repotted in plain soil and dipped in soapy water and rinsed several times and then topped off with clean river stones, Lumen really tries to eat dirt. I saw him kick a rock right out of the pot with his tongue. My new solution is covering the soil right from the stems to the edge of the pot with bonsai screening. It's fine plastic mesh and stiff enough to prevent much manipulation. Then I cover the screen with the smooth rocks.
Good luck!