Pair together?

[Wllwynn]

[LIST
i just got back into chameleons after 3 year lay off! Lol and I decided I want to eventually breed them! So I started back off with vields. I purchased a pair male and female along with three cages! I was curious because before I had jacksons and I kept three in about the same size cage. I was wondering if the pair I have can live in there ok it's a 30x30x72.I assume as long as they are ok with lots of visual barriers they would be fine but I didn't know if that would affect there breeding routines at all!! Any advice?
[/LIST]

 

[jrh3]

I really wouldn't do it. I can be done but it leads to stress and could kill the female because the male will want to mate every time they see each other. In short terms NO.

 

[Wllwynn]

Now I should put her in the smaller of the three cages which is still 20x20x36 the other one is a 25x25x48? I know females do better in smaller area

 

[jrh3]

yeah keep them seperated until she is ready to breed. This will prolong the life of your chameleons, also try to fill it with plants, they feel safe this way and stay happier.

 

[pssh]

I really wouldn't do it. I can be done but it leads to stress and could kill the female because the male will want to mate every time they see each other. In short terms NO.

This is not true. When chameleons are housed together (properly) it has been observed that the male actually mates less with the females, the females produce clutches less often, and have smaller clutches in general.

That being said, I wouldn't do it as stress is still a very big issue.

 

[Olimpia]

Also, it's worth noting that selling veiled babies is tough, especially if you aren't a reputable breeder people know they can trust. If people don't know you they're often a little hesitant to buy a cham from you. And forget about making a profit! lol They'll eat you out of house and home, way beyond what you'd get back for them if you sold them all.

Just adding that to the list of considerations, so you don't go in blind.

 

[Wllwynn]

I've been selling and breeding reptiles for awhile. First time with chameleons i got rid of all my snakes and lizards to focus on them I've had them before and I love them they are my favorite reptile of all I'm not to pressed on selling the babies, but thanks for the advice anyway it's not really a selling breeding I'm worried about I'll be fine if they don't sell!! Not really my goal

 

[kinyonga]

Pssh you said..."When chameleons are housed together (properly) it has been observed that the male actually mates less with the females, the females produce clutches less often, and have smaller clutches in general"...do you have a paper/site that I could read that talks about this?

There is a paper that says jacksons, hoehnellis and bitaeneatus (sp?) live in pairs in the wild...but species like dilepis are solitary.
There is also a paper saying that ellioti live together in pairs in the wild.

There is also this paper about mate guarding in C. chamaeleons that only mate/produce once a year...
http://eurekamag.com/research/035/264/mate-guarding-social-mating-scheme-male-usual-chameleons.php

 

[pssh]

Ask Chris Anderson. Last time I said that the male may want to mate constantly with the female he told me I was wrong. He had a link, but I don't know where it is.

 

[kinyonga]

Thanks pssh!

I found this site too...
"Although fewer males courted non-receptive females, their courtship displays were significantly longer than those directed towards receptive females"...
http://www.animalbehavior.org/ABS/Media/AbstractStatus.html

And this...personally, in my somewhat limited experience with them, I found C. chamaeleons to do well living in pairs...
"They were typically found singularly and tended to avoid rather than engage nearby conspecifics. In every observed encounter they would begin to move away when another chameleon came into view"...
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~mbutler/PDFs/Butler05.pdf

Another...
"Except for Brookesia and Rampoleon, all chamaeleonidae are shy by nature (Anderson). Therefore, common chameleons tend to keep themselves in solitary areas, fending off any intruders, including those in the same species. (Anderson) "...
http://usf.usfca.edu/fac_staff/dever/CHAMELEONS.pdf