Outdoor Enclosure: model 636 ver. 1
- Thread starter melble68
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melble68
Established Member
I obviously moved my attention inside for a lil bit dealing w/ the arrival of Luke Skywalker here a few weeks ago, but the outdoor enclosure is still getting some things done to it. Baby Tears and hanging Vanda (which is getting ready to bloom) are doing great. Long leaf ficus has all kinds of new growth. I'm still stalling on doing the river rock. That will probably be the last thing done before Luke moves in this following spring.
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So back when i first looked into your enclosure I seen your plants and loved him and wanted ones similar. So i picked up schefflera actinophylla (amate) about a week ago that look like the plants you have. and now just finding out they are toxic. If your schefflera's are that you may need to reconsider thought I'd give you a heads up. I'm still trying to get confirmation before i return mine.
melble68
Established Member
I know about the amate being toxic. The amate has some weird additional pointy things where each leave comes off the stems, gets really big, and will eventually have a massive bloom come out the top. I don't think mine is an amate. Even the arboricola is somewhat toxic. Dogs and cats can have probs w/ them too. Either way from I've been able to research they would have to ingest quite a bit to cause a problem. I guess the problem really becomes a problem is you have a plant chewer. Do you have a panther or a veiled? Veiled are known to be more of chewers. I'm also presenting a couple of baby tears plants in the outdoor enclosure to give him something good to chew on if he decides to.
plan to get a panther so was thinking might not be so much of an issue. And I have also read usually needs to be quite a bit ingested to really do harm. my thought was cats and dogs are huge compared to a chameleon so what might be alot for a chameleon? that is if my future cham even decides to munch on plants
I'll have a few other plants too already have an arboricola, pothos, gonna get a brom, some air plants and gonna have baby tears in there somewhere as well. Started a thread about the amate to get other peoples opinions.
If you don't think yours is an amate, what else do you think it can be?
I'll have a few other plants too already have an arboricola, pothos, gonna get a brom, some air plants and gonna have baby tears in there somewhere as well. Started a thread about the amate to get other peoples opinions.
If you don't think yours is an amate, what else do you think it can be?
melble68
Established Member
i believe it to be a arboricola. Have you been able to find baby tears locally? I asked a bunch of places. Some folks looked at me like I was speaking a foreign language, and others said they used to get them but their suppliers stopped supplying them. I got my one off of amazon. Its grown out pretty nicely, and I'm getting ready to split it into two. Just waiting for spring to see if Luke likes to munch on them.
leaves look awfully long to be an arboricola. I found one that looked like your in a 4" pot but cant remember what the lady in the store said cant remember if they came from different areas or just labelled wrong. from my understanding most of the arboricola's by me tend to be more bush like.
I can find baby tears very easily often in lowes/rona/home depot and guaranteed at a nursery by me called plant world. think they are also called angel tears so maybe try that term when you look locally
I can find baby tears very easily often in lowes/rona/home depot and guaranteed at a nursery by me called plant world. think they are also called angel tears so maybe try that term when you look locally
melble68
Established Member
dwarf yep, but I don't think all. I have a variegated dwarf in my winter indoor enclosure that is more like a bush. I scratch my head how lots of peeps get pics of their chams sleeping. When mine beds down right now it takes quite some time to find him inside the plant, let alone take a pic.
LOL, lowes and home depot down here are where i got the blank stares.
LOL, lowes and home depot down here are where i got the blank stares.
Chameleon Company
Avid Member
Just saw this thread. Nice work, and certainly spacious for your chams. But a couple of things:
1) Your pavers, which serve the purpose of a foundation, extend well beyond the foundation line, and into the area of the cage-floor. Thus creating a hard impact surface should a chameleon ever have need to jump-fall from the tree. I would recommend that any future cage, or anyone hoping to replicate, would consider having the paver such that it is only under the actual wood, and extends then outward as need be, not inwards; and
2) The most vulnerable wood is that which sits on the paver/ground. Its Florida, and you are also going to be wetting that cage daily, if Mother Nature does not do it for you. That wood will rot in about 5 years, give or take, even if pressure treated. What you can consider in future designs is having the wood off the ground, secured to such as metal stakes driven into the ground. You then extend whatever mesh you are using so that it goes down into the ground by several inches. Or you could use such as aluminum sheathing around the base, which helps to keep the bugs in.
I have built many outdoor cages in Florida. My comments are based on that experience. Good luck with all.
1) Your pavers, which serve the purpose of a foundation, extend well beyond the foundation line, and into the area of the cage-floor. Thus creating a hard impact surface should a chameleon ever have need to jump-fall from the tree. I would recommend that any future cage, or anyone hoping to replicate, would consider having the paver such that it is only under the actual wood, and extends then outward as need be, not inwards; and
2) The most vulnerable wood is that which sits on the paver/ground. Its Florida, and you are also going to be wetting that cage daily, if Mother Nature does not do it for you. That wood will rot in about 5 years, give or take, even if pressure treated. What you can consider in future designs is having the wood off the ground, secured to such as metal stakes driven into the ground. You then extend whatever mesh you are using so that it goes down into the ground by several inches. Or you could use such as aluminum sheathing around the base, which helps to keep the bugs in.
I have built many outdoor cages in Florida. My comments are based on that experience. Good luck with all.
melble68
Established Member
Thanks Jim for the reply and constructive criticism. I've been all over your website, and truly respect and appreciate your input. I'm actually glad that I've been very patient on working on my enclosure, especially being able to "air" it out here for lots to see, it has helped me tweek my enclosure for perfection. I'm completely in agreement and knowledge of the eventual rot factor. I've built numerous decks the right and the wrong way. Woops.
The main part(s) of my enclosure design were the easy part. The bottom has made me scratch my head quite a bit, and both of your concerns were/are mine also. I'm glad you brought them back to the surface, cause I'm once again re-evaluating what to do and your comments are making me think about it again. At first I wanted to build an actual bottom frame w/ hardware cloth on it. I've always been concerned with uninvited guests and the bounce / fall issue. I think I'm going back to the screen concept for the bottom. I have the idea already on how to deal w/ the mesh going around the schefflera. As for the ground contact, I think I'm going raise the enclosure up on 4 concrete deck/pier blocks. I think Dr. O has some of the big metal spikes used on his monstrosity.
I have also thought about the feeding issue of loose feeders running around. I'm cup feeding right now, so I'm thinking about putting multiple bigger cups around the enclosure or a big sunny d kind of a thing. My hardware cloth is 1/4" so I'm hoping by spring Luke w/ be eating full size crickets and good sized discoids. Hopefully escapees won't just run out for the resident anoles to enjoy.
The main part(s) of my enclosure design were the easy part. The bottom has made me scratch my head quite a bit, and both of your concerns were/are mine also. I'm glad you brought them back to the surface, cause I'm once again re-evaluating what to do and your comments are making me think about it again. At first I wanted to build an actual bottom frame w/ hardware cloth on it. I've always been concerned with uninvited guests and the bounce / fall issue. I think I'm going back to the screen concept for the bottom. I have the idea already on how to deal w/ the mesh going around the schefflera. As for the ground contact, I think I'm going raise the enclosure up on 4 concrete deck/pier blocks. I think Dr. O has some of the big metal spikes used on his monstrosity.
I have also thought about the feeding issue of loose feeders running around. I'm cup feeding right now, so I'm thinking about putting multiple bigger cups around the enclosure or a big sunny d kind of a thing. My hardware cloth is 1/4" so I'm hoping by spring Luke w/ be eating full size crickets and good sized discoids. Hopefully escapees won't just run out for the resident anoles to enjoy.
Chameleon Company
Avid Member
Well, threads like this are not just about showing off, which is admittedly fun, but also about sharing and soliciting ideas. My outdoor cages are a bit larger, and built in groups of 4 or more, with common dividers, but let me post some here which will illustrate how I solved some problems. And "Oh yeah", I learned the hard way .......
The first image is of a completed set of 4 outdoor cages. It's about 8' tall, fully planted, etc. You can't tell much otherwise, but it is shown as the finished product. The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th images are of a new set of 7 cages, tiered to match the slope of the ground. The first set of four is built with pretty much the same concerns addressed with the foundation. Those 2 X 8's are bolted to steel posts (typically used for mailboxes) which are hammered into the ground about 3' each. There is then aluminum sheathing going from the wood into the ground, such that no wood touches the dirt. The bottom of each cage is 100% ground. A further advantage here is that loose bugs on the ground cannot climb the aluminum. They can climb the plants, and surely some escape, but certainly not all.
I have 28 such outdoor cages. If I wanted to show off, all of these would have been in threads long ago. But you are a good builder, and fellow enthusiast. You may be able to take some of these ideas and make them even better. Heck, I always took ideas from others in the business. And they have certainly taken them from me.
Good luck with your efforts.
Edit in: Hard to see in the images, but in picture #2, where the foundation 2 X 8's serve as the dividers between cages in the foundation, rather than have aluminum sheathing walling-off the space to the ground under them, there is a heavy-duty 1/2" plastic mesh. Bugs can pass through it, but not adult chameleons. For that matter, besides covering the entire cage in 2" X 4" steel fence material, to keep such as raccoons out, it is also covered with the 1/2" plastic mesh to keep the chameleons in. The 1/2" plastic mesh allows many unsuspecting local bugs, and anoles, into the cages. They usually don't come out .............
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melble68
Established Member
Btw, momma has already said that Luke Skywalker, our juvi nosy be, is lonely and needs a "friend". We may need your help w/ our efforts.
Oh I forgot. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's an incredible build. I now completely understand your "spike" design idea. Thank you for the enlightenment. Its gotten my wheels turning even harder.
Oh I forgot. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's an incredible build. I now completely understand your "spike" design idea. Thank you for the enlightenment. Its gotten my wheels turning even harder.
Chameleon Company
Avid Member
Btw, momma has already said that Luke Skywalker, our juvi nosy be, is lonely and needs a "friend". We may need your help w/ our efforts.
Oh I forgot. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's an incredible build. I now completely understand your "spike" design idea. Thank you for the enlightenment. Its gotten my wheels turning even harder.
I'm only about 70 miles west of you, so we certainly share the same weathering issues. My outdoor designs have evolved over a dozen years, and still evolve a bit with each new set of cages. These desings are not my sole idea ... hardly. I do allow a few folks to come and visit, many who also operate large reptile facilities in Florida, as we have a few, and we trade ideas. Your thread presented a good opportunity to look at some of the issues with outdoor cages, especially in the Florida environment, which while we love our long seasons of warm temps and sunshine, will absolutely eat up almost anything we build, if we let it.
Again, good luck with all.
Chameleon Company
Avid Member
I also have a greenhouse, which is heated as needed on cold nights. I move all the into the GH for our coldest 10-12 weeks of the season.
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