Ordering new cages!

[cyberlocc]

The clear side material was selected so
1) you can pick up the cage. The light weight is a target benefit. Glass is very heavy.
The Medium Atrium cage is superior to an Exo-Terra glass terrarium because
1) Weight as stated above
2) Combination of solid sides and screen side which gives it much more versatility as far as ventilation. 3) external drainage is possible which you do not have with an Ex-Terra cage.
4) Specific hardware to mount to the sides of the cage. Those would be the Dragon Ledges.

Once again, there is a difference between "more expensive" and "unjustified" or "ridiculously" priced. If the clear side is not to your liking and you like glass terrariums then that is fine. But for many applications - say a community that is more in tune with screen cage husbandry rather than glass cage husbandry, it is superior to the Exo_terra glass terrarium.

For the extra price you get
1) one person can lift the cage and move it
2) if it drops it will not break your foot and probably won't break itself. I have done it. It is nice to not have my cage shatter or need help moving it.
3) external drainage - you don't have to worry about a soil layer or soaking up water from the bottom or drilling into a glass floor
4) Hardware included that makes it simple to mount plants and branches off the floor.

Once again. If you like a glass terrarium, more power to you. If none of the above things are important to you, okay. If you want to take a screen cage and attach a shower liner to it, the afternoon is free for garage time. But there is much more value in the Medium Clearside Atrium cage package than just the dimensions. It is a different cage than glass or PVC for a different application. You don't have to recommend it, like it, or use it, but you are not comparing apples to apples.

Okay but you are missing what I am saying.

I agree to the pro of the atrium being lighter, 110% I also agree to the screen front, 110%.

You can add external drainage to an Exoterra. The glass in Exoterras is not tempered (it can be, sometimes, but usually isn't) and you can drill a drain. A few sellers of Exoterras actually offer this as an option before even shipping it.

However with the weight, foamed PVC you use in the breeder series, is also light. It can have a background attached, and adds more rigidity to the cage. I think your breeder series cages are innovation at its finest.

However what is the point of a Clear sided Atrium. It holds humidity better? Nothing can be attached to it, the Cham can't climb on it. It holds humidity better? Sure, but what holds humidity better is PVC/Glass with a Cork Background, where the water soaks into the background and evaporates slower.

I don't see, what advantage the clear side material has over, PVC other than being clear, in which some other plastic sheeting could be subbed here such as Polycarbonate, or even just using clear PVC.

The price isn't less, as stated you could turn a screened Atrium into a breeder series for 30 bucks. And the weight is still low.


I just don't see the Clearside material as a valid material, especially when it increases the price by a 3rd and brings little to the table over cheaper options. And when you can do that to a screened version for 15 for a shower curtain from Walmart, it just complicates it more.

And yes, adding 100 dollars to the price of screen to me dictates the PVC material cost 100 dollars, but it doesn't. The stuff is cheaper screen, so why did the price shoot up 100 dollars? Ya that's ridiculous pricing.

Unless I missed something and clearside comes with stuff the screened version does not. If that's the case that changes, but from what I seen, the only difference is screen vs a shower curtain, and a shower curtain doesn't cost 100.

Edit: Checked, and attached.

So the included is the same, from what I see. So your telling me that PVC sheeting, Which I can buy for 12 dollars as a 6'x6' sheet constitutes a 100 dollar price hike? I don't think so.

 

[DeremensisBlue]

Okay but you are missing what I am saying.

I agree to the pro of the atrium being lighter, 110% I also agree to the screen front, 110%.

You can add external drainage to an Exoterra. The glass in Exoterras is not tempered (it can be, sometimes, but usually isn't) and you can drill a drain. A few sellers of Exoterras actually offer this as an option before even shipping it.

However with the weight, foamed PVC you use in the breeder series, is also light. It can have a background attached, and adds more rigidity to the cage. I think your breeder series cages are innovation at its finest.

However what is the point of a Clear sided Atrium. It holds humidity better? Nothing can be attached to it, the Cham can't climb on it. It holds humidity better? Sure, but what holds humidity better is PVC/Glass with a Cork Background, where the water soaks into the background and evaporates slower.

I don't see, what advantage the clear side material has over, PVC other than being clear, in which some other plastic sheeting could be subbed here such as Polycarbonate, or even just using clear PVC.

The price isn't less, as stated you could turn a screened Atrium into a breeder series for 30 bucks. And the weight is still low.


I just don't see the Clearside material as a valid material, especially when it increases the price by a 3rd and brings little to the table over cheaper options. And when you can do that to a screened version for 15 for a shower curtain from Walmart, it just complicates it more.

Where is this going? Because his is morphing into something other than whether the retail price is fair considering the manufacturing price.

Are we comparing glass cages to my clear side cages? The use cases of the Breeder series vs Clearside? Are you challenging the parts and manufacturing costs of creating the cage in question? Do you really think that a shower curtain from Walmart is equivalent?
(by the way, just for the record -once again - the included Dragon Ledges allow you to mount branches and pots to the sides. You will have to remove that line items you keep using. It isn't valid)

I personally love them, use them, pay more for them than a glass terrarium would cost, and they look far better than me hacking up a screen cage with Walmart parts. I have presented the benefits. All the different use cases of the different cages are a completely different conversation. Glass is different from a hybrid cage using clear PVC which is different than white PVC which is different from screen. That is why there are different cage types. Everyone purchasing has a different use case and will need a different product.

The main pro to the Clearside cages are being able to see in the cage without looking through screen, keeping mist inside the cage, having significant ventilation, and being light enough for one person to move. That is the reason they exist. They cost what they cost because of what it takes in time and materials to make. We do not use Home Depot or WalMart parts. We do not require you to spend the afternoon hacking a cage.

 

[JoXie411]

It’s Sunday I’m not in the mood for this y’all.

 

[JoXie411]

 

[Beman]

Sorry Joxie... I am going to add my 2 cents here.... I have a medium Tall clearside with easy drip pan. I love it! I have made modifications to it to accommodate my climate and my Veiled. But for me it was worth every penny. After experiencing a zoo med cage where the screws actually would loosen themselves to the point of almost falling out and now a DIY cage which was meant to be a temp cage for Bahari where my latches do not even work right on the door. I believe that while Dragon strand is more expensive it is worth it to have the quality. My only complaint is the door sagging slightly which happened with both other cages I have had as well.

I will go one step further here... Due to Bahari having coccidia Bill was gracious and let me cancel my order last minute for the cage I had ordered for him. This cage was due to ship in the next week. If it was all about the money he could have told me no and that my special order cage (because I needed the left panel to be clearside and not the right) was not able to be canceled. He did no such thing. He simply said he would be happy to cancel the order for me. I then got a refund that very day! This showed me that he cared... That he was not in it to take my money. He was honorable. Not a greedy business man. I appreciated him doing this for me. I needed this kindness to afford the medical bills I am now dealing with.

Due to the medical bills I am unable to get a dragon strand right now but if I had the money it would with out a doubt be the direction I would choose to go.

He makes the ledges and the drip pans for all other major cages.. So if someone has a cage already they don't need to buy his complete set up to have the perks of his ledges and drip trays...

 

[salty dog]

You can always make your own!! Just throwing that out there, mine cost me 60.00 total... hardware, light fixture w bulbs and plants complete with 5 hours labor

 

[Beman]

You can always make your own!! Just throwing that out there, mine cost me 60.00 total... hardware, light fixture w bulbs and plants complete with 5 hours labor

right but for people like me who want an elegant cage that looks beautiful in their home and are not talented enough to convert a cabinet to get that then dragon strand is a wonderful option. Some people don't want a few pieces of lumber thrown together with screen in their living room. We don't all have a cham room like you do.

 

[Lizardman457]

How do you tell if your cham is pregnant need help

 

[JoXie411]

right but for people like me who want an elegant cage that looks beautiful in their home and are not talented enough to convert a cabinet to get that then dragon strand is a wonderful option. Some people don't want a few pieces of lumber thrown together with screen in their living room. We don't all have a cham room like you do.

You mean the Fungeon

 

[salty dog]

Lol.. wtf!! Lol..

 

[salty dog]

I can make a beautiful cage, I just build mine for functionality that are time and cost effective, I remodel houses and install roofs 6 days a week, doesn't leave me with very much time to build a picasso

 

[JoXie411]

I can make a beautiful cage, I just build mine for functionality that are time and cost effective, I remodel houses and install roofs 6 days a week, doesn't leave me with very much time to build a picasso

And I’m a stay at home mom 24/7 a week I don’t even have time to go potty.... what up

Don’t know if I have a point

 

[Beman]

I can make a beautiful cage, I just build mine for functionality that are time and cost effective, I remodel houses and install roofs 6 days a week, doesn't leave me with very much time to build a picasso

Right but I can't build and like pretty things... lol

 

[JoXie411]

It is specialty parts going up in price that make the price go up. We try and hold back as much as is possible to keep the prices down, but when we spend our time looking for better parts instead of cheaper parts we become more and more susceptible to vendors raising their prices. I have not raised prices once because of "demand". "Demand" has me investing in operational efficiency with the hope that I can bring prices down.
Bill

I have nothing against your product dude... if I had the money I would have bought your cages. From what I heard from ppl you cages are amazing and worth the money I just can’t justify $100 in shipping that is all. I do hope one day to own one of your cages. I did not mean to offend you with my opinion. Respect dude

 

[Daesie11]

How do you tell if your cham is pregnant need help

There is someone in your thread trying to help you. Please focus on that and dont make multiple posts. It confuses the people trying to help you.

 

[MrsM]

I have nothing against your product dude... if I had the money I would have bought your cages. From what I heard from ppl you cages are amazing and worth the money I just can’t justify $100 in shipping that is all. I do hope one day to own one of your cages. I did not mean to offend you with my opinion. Respect dude

In my humble opinion any time we can support our site sponsors we should. It is thanks to this site (and those individuals) many of our chameleons are alive.
If it isn’t affordable make it yourself but don’t support companies that put profits before the health of the animals, and we should not harm the business of companies that are trying to be different.
Dragon strand definitely puts health first and although I can’t buy one at the moment I think our community should definitely promote this kind of business.

 

[salty dog]

Some people on here have great setups!! Brody...etc.. I admire their creativity, if I ever move into a bigger house..... I support bill strand 100% I just do everything myself, I just added 2 dedicated 20 amp circuits for my cham room myself, cost me $50.00

 

[JoXie411]

In my humble opinion any time we can support our site sponsors we should. It is thanks to this site (and those individuals) many of our chameleons are alive.
If it isn’t affordable make it yourself but don’t support companies that put profits before the health of the animals, and we should not harm the business of companies that are trying to be different.
Dragon strand definitely puts health first and although I can’t buy one at the moment I think our community should definitely promote this kind of business.

I bought diy so I did support the site

 

[DeremensisBlue]

Folks, The response from me comes from accusations that I artificially raise prices because of demand and that the cages are overpriced. The word "ridiculously" was used. Both of these are different than "expensive". Both of those have connotations that I am taking advantage of the chameleon community which I take seriously - especially considering how much I have put into this community. I have DIYers always looking at material costs saying they can do it for cheaper. They can. It doesn't look as good and doing one is a far cry from establishing a supply channel and maintaining a business that can serve the community.

How about we turn this into something that benefits the community? Those of you who seriously think that the cages are overpriced let's put together an alternative. Let's ignore how much it costs me to make because the end customer doesn't care. It is all about the outlay of money for the benefit received. The benefit of a clear side cage, the Medium Clearside Atrium in particular, is the following
1) It looks professionally made
2) It is light enough for one person to move on their own
3) It will not shatter or be a danger if it tips while moving
4) It has an external drainage system right out of the box
5) It has Dragon Ledges included that allow you to landscape up the sides of the cage
6) Full misting int he cage without damage to outside walls and furniture
7) With one full side screen you get the benefits of looking through clear material and ventilation
8) As of August it will come with a misting nozzle mount (but that has not been announced yet so you can include or not include in your analysis)

So what is the value of having all that benefit pulled right out of the box and being able to be set up in an afternoon? The debate as to whether this is the right cage for any particular situation is another discussion. What would it cost to set up an alternative is the real question. Let's leave any special tool or special skill out of this. The Exo-Terra glass terrarium was mentioned. That is perfect. Instead of ranting against materials costs and production cost (which you have no idea about and labor is never considered in your simplistic analysis) how about go straight to the crux of the matter. Put together a parts list and time spent to create the alternative. And then, when the dust settles, we will compare the cost vs. benefit and will have an objective answer as to what is being charged for the benefits that the Dragon Strand cage has over the alternative. And this is open to anyone. It would be very enlightening for the community to see what goes into making/modifying/buying an alternative and we can learn together what the cost vs benefit is of having it all from one place, in one box, and specifically put together for chameleon keepers. So, please put together your shopping list and labor required to produce the alternative. Include shipping too. That is very expensive for me and if you get your parts off of Amazon you get it for the price of a Prime membership. Put it all out on the table.

And let's keep in mind the question we are trying to answer here. What is the cost of the Medium Clearside Atrium beyond the closest most like alternative? Don't bring in other cage types/configurations/etc...or this will get even more out of hand. If this could not interest you, dear reader, in the least then please go on with your day as this is a completely ridiculous exercise. There is no alternative that has the same benefits. It is a unique cage. Just like I would never recommend a Medium Clearside Atrium to someone that needed the insulation of glass. They are two totally different use cases and exist together only in these theoretical discussions that the internet is so famous for. But, if you are invested enough that you want to publicly challenge the value and pricing structure of my cages I invite you to put it in numbers. Then we will have something to talk about that is concrete.

 

[JoXie411]

Like I said yesterday we aren’t doing this on my thread. This was a thread for me ordering diy cages not a thread for a war on dragon strands that is all good day plz stop fighting.