OK, so I just had a special moment with my baby Chameleon

[jajeanpierre]

I Think it was elephant of the trees, I have never been hear of a chameleon been called the dog of the chameleons. I found my Panther to be somehow like a dog in it´s structure due. but I don´t know if anyone would see it and Think it´s form reminds of a small dog, tax dog like.
btw once again. not trying to offende you. jajeanpierre, I have the habbit of sounding arrogant when I try as hardest to approch someone in a hamble ton

Just to keep things accurate--I didn't post the quote your above comment is responding to. @Nursemaia did. It might not matter.

 

[Angelwolf]

Grabs popcorn. Dont mind me.

LMAO.

 

[jcarlsen]

Wow…the amount of mental gymnastics going on in here are amazing. Wish I could read my panther's mind and tell you all what he's enjoying or not

 

[Texasredrider]

Is it fair to say that you should never handle a panther or any other chameleon unless absolutely necessary? I've seen a lot of pictures of chams in their owners hands but I don't want to stress mine to the point of killing it. I take mine out a couple of times a week to put him in his outside cage so he can get some natural sun. I guess I need to quit doing that?

 

[jcarlsen]

Is it fair to say that you should never handle a panther or any other chameleon unless absolutely necessary? I've seen a lot of pictures of chams in their owners hands but I don't want to stress mine to the point of killing it. I take mine out a couple of times a week to put him in his outside cage so he can get some natural sun. I guess I need to quit doing that?

You handle when it's necessary. In your case it's fine. Taking them out for extended "cuddle" sessions is more the issue being discussed here

 

[JacksJill]

I believe the point is to minimize the amount of stress in the chameleons life. This has to be measured against the value that the handling gives the chameleon not the handler.
I waited two weeks and did a lot of showers before going after a stuck shed with a q-tip hoping he would be able to remove it himself. I only removed it because I didn't want it to cause tissue strangulation. The stress to benefit ratio was justified in my mind.
I also handle my cham twice weekly to go back and forth outside. Natural Uvb is a benefit.

 

[leedragon]

I wasn't talking about melleri interacting with humans, but with their own species. I'm no expert on melleri, believe me. I'm just going by what Joel has related to me. My understanding is that melleri do tend to live in groups. We've talked a lot about melleri.

ahh yes I have seen it many times. melleri is capable of living together in Groups. that was one of the reasons I got my mellerie.
you two probably know more about melleries than I. do you know anyone who has observed them in the wild? I wonder how Close/ far apart do they keep from eachother in the wild.

 

[jamest0o0]

I never try to handle my pnther except when necessary, but i actually have to dodge my cham from climbing up my arm most times i'm near. Should this be discouraged? Or okay as long as the cham chooses to?

 

[jajeanpierre]

I never try to handle my pnther except when necessary, but i actually have to dodge my cham from climbing up my arm most times i'm near. Should this be discouraged? Or okay as long as the cham chooses to?

What you are describing might not be that big a deal but it helps to understand what is motivating that behavior. You can only get a grasp on their motivation when you test your hypothesis. When trying to understand any behavior, it always helps to start at the beginning with understanding natural behavior of the species in the wild.

The big question to ask is: Why would a chameleon choose to climb up the arm of a potential predator?

Here's an example to illustrate that what you think you see isn't always what is really going on:

I took a recently imported a sub adult T.q.gracilior male to the vet. I had him in a little tote inside a dark bag to reduce stress until he was examined by the vet. Upon opening the tote, he appeared very calm. (Note that I said "appeared" calm, not that he was in fact calm.) He stayed normal, relaxed colors. Having a very large collection of graciliors, I know what relaxed colors look like. He quietly climbed out of the box, sitting on the edge. The box was in the middle of the examining table in a brightly lit room. When the vet presented his hand, the chameleon calmly reached up and walked up onto his hand. The vet examined him and returned him to me whereby I put him back in his box in the dark bag. Not once did he exhibit any visible signs of stress. He was the picture of calmness.

But, how could he possibly be calm? He would have had to be brain dead to be calm. He had been imported just a couple of months before. Collectors are not noted for their animal-friendly handling techniques, nor are exporters who stuff them in bags to ship to North America.

All his interactions with humanity had been those of force and very similar to a predator grabbing him. At the vet's, he was out in the open--one of the most vulnerable places a small prey animal can be. Remember, chameleons cannot flee and their ability to fight is pretty pathetic. Think how easy it is to catch a chameleon once you spot him. Mice are pretty fearful and furtive but can you catch one? A chameleon is pretty defenseless once spotted by a predator so being out in the open is a pretty bad place for a chameleon to be. He had been medicated, so held many times around the body the same way a predator grabs prey before killing and eating it. There were absolutely no good interactions with humanity.

So here was a wild caught who had had zero positive interactions with humans who appeared calm. It is not likely he was very calm. It is more likely that I didn't recognize any indications of stress he might have been exhibiting.

The only way I would be able to prove his stress levels would have been to pull blood from him and analyse it for stress hormones because visually, he was the picture of calm.

So, back to my original question of why would he choose to climb onto the arm of a (known) predator? It was likely escape behavior. He was escaping being low and vulnerable and going up hoping to find safety.

Your chameleon might be escaping a very confining (to him) cage. He might be trying to expand his territory. He might be escaping what to him is a dangerous place to be. Who knows. No one can read a chameleon's mind and it does them a disservice to try. We humans constantly misunderstand understand our own species even when we talk to each other in the same language.

 

[jamest0o0]

@jajeanpierre oh i get that, i mean even with something like cats. Mine are terrified at the vet, but when they are there they hardly move and pretty much submit to whatever. They seem to freeze out of fear.

I made a post about my panther wondering how many other's are the same yesterday about this. I was assuming it was his way of exploring and expanding territory. He has his own room and tends to eat more often when i'm around. Maybe he associates me with good things like treats, new territory, etc. I don't ever try to hold him for no reason, but if he really tries i'll let him crawl on me for a few moments. I free range him, he has a large area with a lot of branches and plants. A dripper and regular mistings. I can't imagine that cage size would be the issue here. That's what made me think the cage size recommended in care sheets could be too small for some chams.

Sorry rushing around apologize if this isn't written well!

 

[jajeanpierre]

@jajeanpierre oh i get that, i mean even with something like cats. Mine are terrified at the vet, but when they are there they hardly move and pretty much submit to whatever. They seem to freeze out of fear.

I made a post about my panther wondering how many other's are the same yesterday about this. I was assuming it was his way of exploring and expanding territory. He has his own room and tends to eat more often when i'm around. Maybe he associates me with good things like treats, new territory, etc. I don't ever try to hold him for no reason, but if he really tries i'll let him crawl on me for a few moments. I free range him, he has a large area with a lot of branches and plants. A dripper and regular mistings. I can't imagine that cage size would be the issue here. That's what made me think the cage size recommended in care sheets could be too small for some chams.

Sorry rushing around apologize if this isn't written well!

Why do you think your chameleon eats more when you are around? Is it because he is generally only presented with food when he is hungry WHEN YOU FEED HIM? So, once you've fed him and he is satiated, he doesn't eat when you go away? Do you see how things can be mininterpretted?

One other thing, and I am in no way suggesting this is the case with your chameleon, but eating is also a response to stress.

 

[jamest0o0]

I really don't know, i just picked up on it lately. I related it to possibly being because when i am around i give him food. So maybe he associates me with eating. I have food in his cup throughout the day though. Trust me i'm not one to think my chameleon loves and misses me. The stress thing makes some sense. He usually has peace and quiet, but my girlfriend and her brother came in just to look at him one day(not a common thing) and out of nowhere he ran to his cup and started eating.

 

[CharlieCharmingo]

Hey guys in this particular moment I think the excitement is a little overrated. Now while we all know or should know eye closure means stress, but she said at the beginning that her chameleon started to rub her eye on her and that she was shedding. So couldn't, in this particular moment, the eye closure just be assumed with the chameleon realizing this might be a perfect shed opportunity? All that could have been said was "hey once they close their eyes and keep them closed it might be about stress now and less about trying to get the shed off". I know it's frustrating but not all new members are out playing puppy with their chams. We have to try and remember that. Besides it's not like she was trying to argue her point, she legitimately didn't know and once someone kindly explained what was happening she said she wouldn't do it again. Patience guys. Patience.

 

[leedragon]

Hey guys in this particular moment I think the excitement is a little overrated. Now while we all know or should know eye closure means stress, but she said at the beginning that her chameleon started to rub her eye on her and that she was shedding. So couldn't, in this particular moment, the eye closure just be assumed with the chameleon realizing this might be a perfect shed opportunity? All that could have been said was "hey once they close their eyes and keep them closed it might be about stress now and less about trying to get the shed off". I know it's frustrating but not all new members are out playing puppy with their chams. We have to try and remember that. Besides it's not like she was trying to argue her point, she legitimately didn't know and once someone kindly explained what was happening she said she wouldn't do it again. Patience guys. Patience.

yeah I Think the cham just took to opportunity to scratch off shed too.