New Zoo Med 10.0 T8 readings

[summoner12]

The buzz I heard is that they are in stock at some larger reptile supply stores.... but I imagine they are holding them back because they want to sell off the T12 stock first.

The people I talked with at Zoo Med said there are still a lot of T12 lamps in stock all over, even their warehouse. It just depends on the length of the lamp that determines the stock on hand...... meaning, the faster moving lamps are running low on stock and will be replaced by the new T8 style before other, not so commonly purchased size lamps.

I think a lot of people buy 48"? Personally I buy 48" and 18". I only have one 36" fixture. I don't know if its just me or what but those lamps are still VERY strong even with old age, so I don't replace them often (maybe I got a lucky batch). The 18" lamps are T8 already, so you don't need to worry about them 'changing over' .

 

[Eric Adrignola]

A 10.0 at 3-4 inches THROUGH aluminum screen WILL cause eye problems. Seen it myself. I lay the bulbs right on the cages usually. When the basking spot is 5-6" below the top of the cage I have never had a problem. I had one cage where the ficus branch was enabling the females to bask directly under the bulb, and two females got conjunctivitus.

 

[Pure]

48s and 18s seem to be the magic size everyone uses. Most 24 inch light fixtures use 18 inch bulbs. It's rare to find a 24 inch fixture with a 24 inch bulb.

I'm wanting these because, wile my Melleri cage isn't free range, it is almost big enough to be thought of in the same way. And the lighting is set up like you would a free range.

The way it's set up the 10.0 T12 I have is at a minimum, 15 inches from the top back basking area, and over 2 feet from the 3 other incandescent basking areas I've set up. I need a meter, but like Summoner I don't think they are getting enough UVB. I've yet to see them Bask in the 5th basking spot. Number 5 is the only one without an incandescent and is closest to the UV @ 18 inches.

Eric, @ 3 inches...isn't that close enough to cause UV burns?

 

[summoner12]

What I should point out is that I don't think the T8 is stronger than a new t12. It's just that the new T8 compared to my old T12 is way stronger... Because it is new.

The new T12's I got from LLL had issues, that is how I got these new lamps from Zoo Med..... As replacements for a failed set of lamps.

 

[Eric Adrignola]

well, it was strogn enough to cause conjunctivitus. didn't see any burns. The eye problems happened really fast.

 

[Pure]

What I should point out is that I don't think the T8 is stronger than a new t12. It's just that the new T8 compared to my old T12 is way stronger... Because it is new.

The new T12's I got from LLL had issues, that is how I got these new lamps from Zoo Med..... As replacements for a failed set of lamps.

I was under the impression that any T8 will have more Lumens then a T12. Just like a T5 is stronger than a T12. I'm not familiar with T8s. But I know this is true for T5s. Wouldn't this also effect the amount of UVB it produces? What were your readings on a new T12?

 

[summoner12]

I was under the impression that any T8 will have more Lumens then a T12. Just like a T5 is stronger than a T12. I'm not familiar with T8s. But I know this is true for T5s. Wouldn't this also effect the amount of UVB it produces? What were your readings on a new T12?

I think if you uncorked the bottle it might be stronger.... but the idea of a 10.0 or a 5.0 is that the number 10.0 and 5.0 represents the percentage of UVB produced. so if a T12 10.0 had less output vs. a T8 10.0 than the T8 isn't really a 10.0 anymore, right? I could be wrong about this. I did notice that the T8 lamps are brighter. But the idea behind the phosphors in the lamp are to promote and restrict the type of light being projected from the lamp (at least this is how it was explained to me). I would imagine the T8, if brighter has a different mixture of phosphor that makes the output of UVB the same as any other lamp of its rating. Sure it might be brighter, but the type of light coming out of the lamp is the same as similarly rated lamps. of course I could be wrong, I am just explaining how it makes sense in my head from reading I have done.

 

[summoner12]

A 10.0 at 3-4 inches THROUGH aluminum screen WILL cause eye problems. Seen it myself. I lay the bulbs right on the cages usually. When the basking spot is 5-6" below the top of the cage I have never had a problem. I had one cage where the ficus branch was enabling the females to bask directly under the bulb, and two females got conjunctivitus.

I had an experience with my female veiled where she started closing her left eye. I thought 'hmmm wonder why shes doing this...' Then i watched her for a while. to see if she was digging or rubbing it on something to cause an irritation. I noticed she always basks facing the one side of her cage..... The direction she was facing put the UVB lamp to the left of her.... I have the UVB lamp running diagonal across the top of the cage and it crossed just to the left of her. I was operating a 10.0 above her because it is a reptarium, which deteriorates the lamps output considerably as it passes through the thick plastic mesh. Apparently its not as much as I had thought. So I swapped the 10.0 out for a 5.0 and within a few days, no issues. I haven't had an issue since either.

As I have said before, I don't think people should use a 10.0 over a cage even if it is a tall cage. It is very easy to entice a chameleon to bask high in the cage by providing the right amount of heat at the right distance from the top of the cage. Making sure the heat provided is just right for the animal, they will come to this spot day in and day out to warm themselves. At the same time they will be within range of the UVB lamp and receive the right amount of UVB they need. A 10.0 is just too much in my opinion. Also a 5.0 has been shown to provide a better spectrum of UVB that promotes D3 production compared to other lamps. So it makes sense to set the cage up so that the chameleon is drawn to the top of the cage where UVB and UVA/heat sources can be utilized. The chameleon will wander off to hunt and patrol once it has warmed itself. It's sorta like a docking station where the chameleon can recharge

 

[Eric Adrignola]

I think it's fine to use a 10.0. Especially given that they put out usable UVB over for a longer period of time than 5.0 bulbs.

You just ned to suspend them over the cage, and not leave them resting on the cages. I checked with my UVB meter, and the result is that a 10.0 a few inches above a cage fills more of the cage with light amounts of UVB than a 5.0 right on it.

But yeah - I speak from experience - they can be dangerous!

 

[summoner12]

I think it's fine to use a 10.0. Especially given that they put out usable UVB over for a longer period of time than 5.0 bulbs.

You just ned to suspend them over the cage, and not leave them resting on the cages. I checked with my UVB meter, and the result is that a 10.0 a few inches above a cage fills more of the cage with light amounts of UVB than a 5.0 right on it.

But yeah - I speak from experience - they can be dangerous!

I agree with what you are saying.

Its just that not everyone has a meter

 

[summoner12]

Lamps came in

The F32T8 lamps came in the mail today!!

Zoo Med sent me two 10.0's and one 5.0 according to the email I got from Ashley. I need to open the box and confirm though

I will post readings in a new thread and link to it from this thread for those who are subscribed here.

Edit: funny story.... I was sitting on the patio with Lenny and I hear the UPS truck pull up so I walked inside and to the front door and waited for him at the top of the step.... Once Lenny saw him she started gaping and spotted up pretty quickly while perched on my left hand.... The UPS guy seemed unsure of her.. and said "is she opening her mouth to catch flys?!??????' and I'm like 'oooh no, shes just saying hello...' and he looks at her again.... 'oh uh.. ok.....' LOL I love reactions from people who don't have chameleons or even know what they are all about.

The people who live below me saw me sunning my veiled, Fred and wanted to know if he was poisonous....... 'uh yeah he is... a bite will kill you before you can call 911............. that's why I am holding him with my bare hands'

 

[summoner12]

Ya know I am a moron... I have been calling the lamps that I test above, F38..... They are F36........ sorry for the mix up.

The new ones are F32.

 

[summoner12]

So these readings are from the F36 lamps sent to me. I finally got around to testing the F32 lamps that were sent.

I did not run a full scale test like I did above... That will come shortly. BUT I was over at Dave Weldon's house having some fecal tests done and I brought a new T-8 fixture, the F36 and F32 lamps. We did some comparisons and the F36 lamp in a F32 fixture was putting out half the UVB output of a F32 lamp in the correct F32 fixture....

This means the readings from above are not quite what these lamps are capable of.... I will get going on my tests asap so I can post the results. I will do the same type of tests as you see above.

 

[jake01]

I know these results are for reptisun 10.0, but looking at the closer readings, I'm kind of worried about my chameleon since he can get very close to his 5.0, now, I don't have a UVB meter or anything but if my guy is within a couple inches to the top of the screen (he loves to hang out near the top of his schefflera, which is right under the uvb).

What would you more experienced guys do?

 

[summoner12]

I know these results are for reptisun 10.0, but looking at the closer readings, I'm kind of worried about my chameleon since he can get very close to his 5.0, now, I don't have a UVB meter or anything but if my guy is within a couple inches to the top of the screen (he loves to hang out near the top of his schefflera, which is right under the uvb).

What would you more experienced guys do?

A linear 5.0 won't hurt your cham as long as he isn't under it for hours, at that range. young chams like to climb on the top of the cage. As he ages he'll stop doing it. If you see him belly up under the light for long periods of time, I suggest raising the light up about 2-3" and you should be OK. If he spends a lot of time there he'll get the UVB he needs. If you see that he has stopped climbing under the light, lower the fixture back to sitting on top of the cage directly, so he can bask in his normal spot.

The biggest concern I would have is the heat lamp. If your lamp is too hot he will burn his toes off and can get thermal burns on his belly and legs.

 

[jake01]

I keep his basking temp max 83 degrees f. 3-4 month old male veiled. I raise the light a bit and use a 60w bulb, ambient temp ranges between 69-75 degrees. Basically, I follow everything from Brad's blog.

 

[summoner12]

I keep his basking temp max 83 degrees f. 3-4 month old male veiled. I raise the light a bit and use a 60w bulb, ambient temp ranges between 69-75 degrees. Basically, I follow everything from Brad's blog.

A 60w lamp is pretty hot at a 2-3" range. Just keep an eye on the temp right under it if he were to climb along and park under the heat lamp. Most won't sit there..... but it is still possible he won't think to move and I think you rather be safe than sorry.

 

[jake01]

O yeah, 2-3" would be a sauna. I should've specified I have the basking light positioned a good 5-6" from the cage. It's only the reptisun 5.0 I have resting on top of the cage.

 

[summoner12]

ahum. I'm the one who did the research on the dull side of the foil. But Dave is the one who told me to use foil in the first place.

Thanks for the heavy lifting on the readings!

Ya know I was doing some testing on this foil stuff and found that it didn't matter what side of the foil I used.

I imagine the 'dull' side diffuses the light more making a more even reflection and the more 'polished' side makes for a more direct reflection. Either way I haven't found any increase in output using either side of the foil used to reflect light.

but overall it is best to use a foil reflector. input increased over 200% at 20" when using a reflector vs. none used.

 

[DGray]

Great work

Great work on the test of the new bulb. Thanks.

I wonder what the results of one bulb would look like? It would also be interesting to see how much blockage the common types of screen reduce irradiance. Maybe this sort of test has already been posted somewhere for the T-12 version?