New owner

[Reko]

Hi all, can I get some advice and guidance please.
Got my beautiful male tamatave chameleon from a reptile store, he seemed to take to me quite quickly whereas he puffed up at the girl who worked there.
She set my screen cage up for me in the store, put some plants in,lita of climbing branches, heat lamp and uvb light on top, thermometer at bottom, BUT she put substrate in the bottom which I questioned her about...knowing its best to leave bottom empty...she said they keep theirs with substrate and it would cause less stress if it was the same layout.

Anyway....questions
1. He was eager to be out of his cage on the first day, seemed content with sitting on my shoulder or head and let me.know when he wanted back to his cage. Since day two....he puffs up, hisses and backs away whenever I go near the cage. He lets me lay my hand slowly from below and front and he will step onto my hand for a minute then turn and walk away. Is this normal behaviour. I just worry . I know they aren't handling animals, but this morning, I turned lights on and he was reaching off the branch towards me and came really willingly.

2. Store lady said he eats a lot, has been eating approx 8-12 locust a day. Ive kept record of how many hes eating at home and its no where near that amount. Most was 4 in one day and been less since then. But he's drinking well. Is under 4 locusts a day good enough or should I be worried??

3. Thermometer says its 75 Fahrenheit at the botton, on the first day he stayed at the bottom of the cage and was dark grey in colour. His usual colouring is light blue with red stripes. He felt really cold so called the store and they said to come get a warmer bulb. So they gave me a 100w bulb which he seems pretty happy with. He stretches out under it on the branch and moves away when he needs cool. Does this seem ok??

4. Misting, im manually misting, the humidity meter ive got says the cage is always on moderate. When I mist it, it goes up to humid but when it dried out it drops back down to middle moderate. But this means im misting 4/5 times a day and Reko always licks the leaves for at least five minutes when ive misted. So I read that u should cover two sides with plastic to help retain the humidity, which I did and its kept it up a little bit.but not much. Any advice about this or should I switch to glass viv??

5. Locusts, should I out greens in the cage for them to eat also??


I should mention that when I got him he had started shedding, he's mostly finished now.

Any advice is greatly appreciated. Ill add a picture of the set up and my little guy Reko. Thanks!

 

[dshuld]

Do you have a linear uv light or are you using the zoo med chameleon "kit" ? You were correct in your thinking of no substrate unless you do a bioactive type enclosure. Were they able to give you his age at all?

 

[Wowbango]

So a couple things...that cage is WAY too small for him. An Adult Panther needs at the very least a 24'x24'x48" screen enclosure. He needs a lot more room for moving around. Second, ditch the Compact Fluorescent UVB bulb. They're total garbage. You need to switch to a linear light fixture, a T5 is preferable and will provide better output. A Substrate CAN be achieved, you just have to be careful with what you use. When chameleons are dark like that, it's usually because they're cold and trying to absorb heat. It sounds like after you made the change you've achieved the correct temperature for him. They like to expand their bodies under the heat lamp to collect as much heat as possible. once they start getting lighter, it's usually because they're warming up or getting too hot, then they should move away from the heat source, this is totally normal. They self-regulate.

Do you know how old he is? He looks like an adult/young adult. Once they reach adult hood, they start to slow down with their eating. I would start feeding every other day. Make sure to try and vary his diet as much as possible with different feeders. Try crickets, roaches, superworms (NOT MEALWORMS), silkworms and hornworms. There's a vast variety of feeders that chameleons will eat and the variety keeps them healthy and interested. If you're having trouble keeping humidity up, you can cover some of the sides with shower curtains (or similar type product) and that should help. Also, investing in an automatic misting system is almost a must. Once you have one, you'll never understand why you went without one. It's a small investment but will save you time and your poor hand from getting strained. You also don't have to worry if you're away from your home for long periods of time. Look into a Mistking System.

Panther Chameleons DO NOT eat greens/veggies. This is typical of Veiled Chameleon, not a Panther.

 

[Reko]

Do you have a linear uv light or are you using the zoo med chameleon "kit" ? You were correct in your thinking of no substrate unless you do a bioactive type enclosure. Were they able to give you his age at all?

Its a double bulb type fixture, on side heat lamp and other side a uvb bulb, ill attach picture.

They said he was 2-3years old. But wrote on my form that he was a cb17, which they said meant he was captivity breed born in 2017. So how that makes him 2-3years old???

 

[Reko]

So a couple things...that cage is WAY too small for him. An Adult Panther needs at the very least a 24'x24'x48" screen enclosure. He needs a lot more room for moving around.
Yes I did query this with the lady at the store and she assured me this was adequate for the next year but I have already been looking into getting a far bigger space for my boy. But glad you have reassured my thoughts.

Second, ditch the Compact Fluorescent UVB bulb. They're total garbage. You need to switch to a linear light fixture, a T5 is preferable and will provide better output. I will look into a bigger space with this type of fixture, thanks.

A Substrate CAN be achieved, you just have to be careful with what you use. When chameleons are dark like that, it's usually because they're cold and trying to absorb heat. It sounds like after you made the change you've achieved the correct temperature for him. They like to expand their bodies under the heat lamp to collect as much heat as possible. once they start getting lighter, it's usually because they're warming up or getting too hot, then they should move away from the heat source, this is totally normal. They self-regulate. Great im glad the newer heat lamp is doing the job but now its killing the plant I have in there...the leaves nearer the top are browning off and getting holes in them...how often do you change out the plants and does this cause stress for the chameleon to change their plants??

Do you know how old he is? He looks like an adult/young adult. Once they reach adult hood, they start to slow down with their eating. I would start feeding every other day. Make sure to try and vary his diet as much as possible with different feeders. Try crickets, roaches, superworms (NOT MEALWORMS), silkworms and hornworms. There's a vast variety of feeders that chameleons will eat and the variety keeps them healthy and interested. Thanks for the advice, see my previous comment on age. So this is debatable at the mo. But if he's probably between one year and two year old shall I still go to every other day? Ive only been putting in up to five locusts a day so if hes only eaten three yesterday, ive added two more today. Is this ok???

If you're having trouble keeping humidity up, you can cover some of the sides with shower curtains (or similar type product) and that should help.
Also, investing in an automatic misting system is almost a must. Once you have one, you'll never understand why you went without one. It's a small investment but will save you time and your poor hand from getting strained. You also don't have to worry if you're away from your home for long periods of time. Look into a Mistking System. I will get a misting system for sure, I worry he's getting too dry in there. His urates has orange on today, a large section of it so this means he's not getting enough hydration right???

Panther Chameleons DO NOT eat greens/veggies. This is typical of Veiled Chameleon, not a Panther.

 

[dshuld]

Its a double bulb type fixture, on side heat lamp and other side a uvb bulb, ill attach picture.

They said he was 2-3years old. But wrote on my form that he was a cb17, which they said meant he was captivity breed born in 2017. So how that makes him 2-3years old???

Lol, geez on the age. The uv light they sold you isn't what you want to use. You'll want to get him a linear (t5ho) uv light as mentioned above, either a reptisun or arcadia. Also as mentioned, at that age he needs to be in a zoo med xl at minimum. What supplements did they sell you?

At his age he may still be in his "teenager" stage and be extra grumpy for a while. He may pull out of the teenage attitude and he may not. That is something the two of you will have to grow and learn with each other on unfortunately. It is a fun learning experience though lol. I've enjoyed getting to know all of mine and each one has their quirks lol.

As to orange urate, how long was it between samples? Do you have a pic of it?

Edit: some of that was typed before your other reply.

 

[Reko]

Lol, geez on the age. The uv light they sold you isn't what you want to use. You'll want to get him a linear (t5ho) uv light as mentioned above, either a reptisun or arcadia. Also as mentioned, at that age he needs to be in a zoo med xl at minimum. What supplements did they sell you?

At his age he may still be in his "teenager" stage and be extra grumpy for a while. He may pull out of the teenage attitude and he may not. That is something the two of you will have to grow and learn with each other on unfortunately. It is a fun learning experience though lol. I've enjoyed getting to know all of mine and each one has their quirks lol.

As to orange urate, how long was it between samples? Do you have a pic of it?

Edit: some of that was typed before your other reply.

They sold me nutrabol, calcium balancer and multivitamin supplement.

Ive been out for a couple of hours and come home to find him asleep!! Should I be worried???
He's gone a dark green colour with his red bits looking a dark orange.

No I didnt take.pic of his poo. He last went on tuesday and the urate was all white. This time it was about 50% orange but a light orange if that makes a difference.

 

[dshuld]

They sold me nutrabol, calcium balancer and multivitamin supplement.

Ive been out for a couple of hours and come home to find him asleep!! Should I be worried???
He's gone a dark green colour with his red bits looking a dark orange.

No I didnt take.pic of his poo. He last went on tuesday and the urate was all white. This time it was about 50% orange but a light orange if that makes a difference.

What do you have his light schedule set for? He shouldn't be sleeping in the middle of your light schedule no. According to Petr Necas 15 to 50% orange is normal for their physiology. I would keep an eye on it for now but, if you're seeing him gulp down water like there is no tomorrow during your hand misting keep going until he decides to stop.

 

[Reko]

Quick question, my screen cage doesn't retain humidity. Could a glass one.with good ventilation and.screen top work better??

 

[Wowbango]

Quick question, my screen cage doesn't retain humidity. Could a glass one.with good ventilation and.screen top work better??

The Easy answer is Yes. The Not so easy one is no...Panther chameleons are susceptible to upper respiratory infections in a glass enclosure. You CAN achieve it in especially dry climates, but you have to pay a lot of attention and insure that proper airflow. I've seen many a glass enclosure with small electric fans to encourage that air movement and remove stagnant air. I would still look into options to keep humidity up with the screen cage. The more live plants you have, the easier it will be to retain that humidity. I have a "hybrid" of sorts, having a large potted Pothos in the ground of a custom built stand. The little bit of dirt (covered with rocks) helps with the humidity, and I also have some other potted plants providing cover.

 

[Syreptyon]

More live plants is always best! Looks amazing and helps humidity more than you might think.
If this is your first time keeping chams, I would highly encourage you to stick to screen, personally. It is possible to successfully keep chameleons in glass, but that comes with a whole new array of problems that can be difficult to navigate for beginners.

Whichever way you decide to go, make sure your priority is to upgrade his enclosure size ASAP. A 24x24x48 Reptibreeze will get the job done affordably, but this really needs to happen soon. The poor guy should've been upgraded to the full size enclosure like a year or two ago.

Also, to help with humidity, you can try attaching clear plastic sheets to a couple sides of the enclosure. That works well for a lot of people and I sometimes use that trick in the winter when it gets too dry

 

[Reko]

What do you have his light schedule set for? He shouldn't be sleeping in the middle of your light schedule no. According to Petr Necas 15 to 50% orange is normal for their physiology. I would keep an eye on it for now but, if you're seeing him gulp down water like there is no tomorrow during your hand misting keep going until he decides to stop.

Light schedule...bearing in mind I've had him since sunday...is I turn lights off at 9/10pm and turn on at 8am. He doesn't seem to have a sleeping spot yet as he's slept in three different places so far. He goes to sleep straight away and wakes up just after I put the lights on.

 

[Reko]

The Easy answer is Yes. The Not so easy one is no...Panther chameleons are susceptible to upper respiratory infections in a glass enclosure. You CAN achieve it in especially dry climates, but you have to pay a lot of attention and insure that proper airflow. I've seen many a glass enclosure with small electric fans to encourage that air movement and remove stagnant air. I would still look into options to keep humidity up with the screen cage. The more live plants you have, the easier it will be to retain that humidity. I have a "hybrid" of sorts, having a large potted Pothos in the ground of a custom built stand. The little bit of dirt (covered with rocks) helps with the humidity, and I also have some other potted plants providing cover.

Thanks for the advice, I will get more plants for sure when I get the larger cage.

 

[dshuld]

Light schedule...bearing in mind I've had him since sunday...is I turn lights off at 9/10pm and turn on at 8am. He doesn't seem to have a sleeping spot yet as he's slept in three different places so far. He goes to sleep straight away and wakes up just after I put the lights on.

Try to get him on a 12 on 12 off schedule. They need 12 hours of darkness for proper sleep habits. Tv light won't bother them but aim for darkness beyond that.

 

[Reko]

More live plants is always best! Looks amazing and helps humidity more than you might think.
If this is your first time keeping chams, I would highly encourage you to stick to screen, personally. It is possible to successfully keep chameleons in glass, but that comes with a whole new array of problems that can be difficult to navigate for beginners.

Whichever way you decide to go, make sure your priority is to upgrade his enclosure size ASAP. A 24x24x48 Reptibreeze will get the job done affordably, but this really needs to happen soon. The poor guy should've been upgraded to the full size enclosure like a year or two ago.

Also, to help with humidity, you can try attaching clear plastic sheets to a couple sides of the enclosure. That works well for a lot of people and I sometimes use that trick in the winter when it gets too dry

Thanks, I am going to get a new cage tomorrow. I am now concerned that he's been getting used to this enclosure and now I'll have to pull out everything and set up the bigger one, won't this stress him out badly??? Should I do this asap even though he's only been with me for four days??is that too much change in a short space of time??

I have covered two sides with plastic, so that's sorted.

 

[Reko]

Try to get him on a 12 on 12 off schedule. They need 12 hours of darkness for proper sleep habits. Tv light won't bother them but aim for darkness beyond that.

Ok great, I will do that. Ive just turned lights off now. Thanks. Also, ive read that some people cover the cage with sheet??
He's in my dining room and the hall light I keep on at night for my kids to go to the bathroom which they have to walk through dining room to get to, should I cover him so they don't disturb him??

 

[dshuld]

If it lights his cage up more then a tv on in a dark room it wouldn't hurt. Mine are on a 830 to 830 schedule atm. But the ones in my bedroom have no issues sleeping with the tv on while I unwind after work.

 

[Reko]

If it lights his cage up more then a tv on in a dark room it wouldn't hurt. Mine are on a 830 to 830 schedule atm. But the ones in my bedroom have no issues sleeping with the tv on while I unwind after work.

Ok. Ill see how he goes. Thanks for all the tips and advice. I really appreciate it. He's my third baby so I want to get everything right. Now he's finished shedding mostly, only a little few bits still to go, he seems to have taken on a more greeny colour...but not.sure if he's just upset and grumpy still but his bright light blue hasn't returned at all.

 

[dshuld]

Tam's take on a greenish tone so don't stress on that part. I'm not one for tams very often but most I've seen have had a greenish tone at rest.