Need help with sick veiled chameleon. Won't eat or open eyes.

[Beman]

UGGG Coccidia is the worst one to deal with. Search the forum for coccidia. It will bring up threads read up about it and then let me know what questions you have. It has very very specific cleaning requirements because it can live on surfaces for years. Basically means you have to strip the cage to bare anything porous your throwing out.

 

[FishFosh]

@Beman can give you information on how to clean up when your chameleon has Coccidia.

I'm just going to use Dawn soap. The military uses Dawn soap. I'm wondering

UGGG Coccidia is the worst one to deal with. Search the forum for coccidia. It will bring up threads read up about it and then let me know what questions you have. It has very very specific cleaning requirements because it can live on surfaces for years. Basically means you have to strip the cage to bare anything porous your throwing out.

What about the plants do I have to just throw out the plants and then if I throw out the plants at what stage during the treatment do I do that

 

[Beman]

I'm just going to use Dawn soap. The military uses Dawn soap. I'm wondering

What about the plants do I have to just throw out the plants and then if I throw out the plants at what stage during the treatment do I do that

You can not use dawn it will not kill it. As I said look through the threads on coccidia by using the search link. Literally the only way to kill the eggs from this parasite that are excreted when they pass fecal is to strip the cage down wash it out completely and then spray with 40 volume liquid peroxide like the type that you get from Sallys hair supply. Coating the cage so that it sits wet with the peroxide for 20 minutes. Then you have to rinse the heck out of the cage and let it dry. You can use the peroxide only on stuff that is metal or plastic. You can not use it on anything porous. This is why everything in the cage that is porous has to be thrown out. The eggs or oocysts as they are called stick on the surfaces. Then the cham comes a long and eats or drinks off those surfaces and reinfection happens. So plants, branches, fake vines get thrown away. Then You do a bare cage with a few flukers vines. Spot cleaning consistently to remove any fecal or urate. If you add a fake plant for a drinking surface it needs to be above the top basking branch so the cham can not poop on it. The cham needs to be in another room when you are using the peroxide on the cage. It is extremely strong and can harm their lungs. Some people do the cage cleaning outside some do it in a bathroom shower.

This one is not easy... It involves repeated stripping of the cage weekly and going through the cleaning process while the cham is under treatment. You have to get 3 clean fecal results these should be done 2 weeks apart to ensure that the parasite is actually gone.

 

[FishFosh]

Hi there @FishFosh welcome to the forum. See my feedback in Red bold.


Hello thank you in advance for any help, it has been very difficult with this animal, as this is my first reptile and I believe I got him sick, Here we go

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Male Veiled, age unknown, have had for about a month, came from pet store so probably young? Had black markings on head so is an adult as I understand? Looks to be a sub adult.
• Handling - Never, until I started having to force feed him then once every other day. I've also taken him outside for sun twice and in the car to the vet once.
• Feeding - The first week he ate ravenously, and I fed him every day with crickets roaches or waxworms. I thought he as a juvie. Then he abruptly stopped. For 10 days he only ate 2 superworms. He was offered those, crickets, roaches, waxworms every other day. After 10 day I force fed him with reptiboost. I have force fed him 3 times with Repti-boost. I gut load the insects with carrots. feed him every other day, and typically leave insects from 7am until 2pm at which point I force feed him. This has been going on for about a week? He ate a hornworm yesterday so no force feeding. Tomorrow im trying crickets. Sorry if that was disjointed. How are you feeding? with a dish, feeder run? Was anything changed in his environment when he stopped eating?
• Supplements - Flukers calcium without d3 every feeding (not with reptiboost) and Ive given him the reptivite vitamins once a week 3 total times incase he has a vitamin deficiency. (cant open eyes) Make sure it is calcium without D3. This would be used at every feeding of insects lightly dusted. Then reptivite with D3 should be used only 2 times a month say the 1st and the 15th. Does not present as a vitamin A dificency. But more related to temps and distance to the uvb.
• Watering - A dripper, he drinks from it, I catch him. He won't do it with me in the room but I can see him around the corner. For the 10 days he didnt eat I never caught him drinking tho. NO misting durings lights on, and lights off I have a monsoon solo misting for 12 seconds once an hour. I have an extra nozzle and it seems to drench the enclosure pretty well. 12 seconds really is not very long. 2 minutes minimum every 6 hours would be better. you can mist when lights are on. If he has something in an eye he will need to try to clean this out. Which they can not do when they sleep.
• Fecal Description - dark brown with white urea. Looks healthy compared to photos but im a noob Has never been tested for parasites. Highly advice getting a fresh fecal tested to ensure there is not a parasite load.
• History - Came from a crappy pet store that put on a good front to noobs. im sure youve encountered my type before. He has gone to to vet, who told me my nighttime humidity levels were too low. I covered 2 sides of the enclosure with plastic and he seems to feel a bit better. Ambient humidity outside the cage is 20-25%

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - ReptiBreeze 36x18x18 I know its too small, going to build him a larger one. I have the left and right sides covered to keep in humidity. Way too small which you know. Get on the new cage build asap. If using wood you need to seal it with a water based poly urethane and it has to completely gas off.
• Lighting - 12/12 -- 2x 24 inch T5HO fixture Arcadia 6% UVB and a full spectrum 6500k light for plants. Bf30 incandescent indoor floodlight for basking. With your UVB type and strength you have to have a full 8-9 inches to branches below the UVB> This puts them in the correct UVI level where they rise up. Closer than that and they start getting into over exposure levels. His branches look far too close from the pics. Easiest way to fix this is to take the pots that the plants are sitting on out. This will drop down your plants and make room to fully lower the basking level the 9 inches it needs to be. All branches would be at that level distance.
• Temperature - Top of the cage 90, Basking spot 85 Bottom 70. At night I get the top area down to about 65-70. I measure the basking spot with infrared thermometer and have a wifi dongle to measure ambient temp, This is far too hot... basking should sit at about 80 or a bit more maxing at 85. If using a gun to check temps it is not going to give you accurate temps. Dropping the basking down should help. But keep in mind a 60 watt regular incandescent bulb with the other fixtures you have should put out plenty of heat. You can get a gauge with a probe and hook it in at basking branch below the heat fixture to get accurate temps.
• Humidity - I'm using a digital hygrometer used to grow cannabis. Its pretty reliable. At night It gets to 60-75% and during the day 30-40%. It's a struggle. Increasing your misting times will help with your daytime humidity level. Your looking for a 30-50% daytime range.
• Plants - UMbrella plant, a small palm, and pothos
• Placement - Bedroom, near bed, diagonally across from TV, in room with aquariums. Top of enclosure is about 7-8 ft from floor. Only traffic is me.
• Location - Denver Colorado

Current Problem -
He almost never opens his eyes. He has started opening them more now that I went to the vet and put up plastic on the sides, but its still only like 30-40% of the time.
He never eats. 10 days without eating mostly, then a week of force feeding. Hes eaten a hornworm yesterday so im hopeful but i offer food from 7am until 2pm then I force feed him. It sucks. Fecal to rule out parasites, drop temps, increase mistings, correct basking distance by taking out the pots they sit on.
I've found a single droplet of bright red blood in the enclosure. This has happened twice. The second time it was near a massive poop and it was the day after the first force feeding. He has no injuries that I can see. This is very alarming to me of course. I am concerned that he may be so dehydrated that he is causing himself to bleed when he passes fecal or if you have any type of substrate or dirt in the cage that he has eaten it and dealing with an impaction. With Veileds we have to cover the dirt in their pots with large river rock to keep them out of the dirt. They will eat anything and everything like a toddler. By dehydration we look at the urate color. This comes out with the fecal in a separate sack. It should be at least 50% white. If it is all yellow/orange then the cham is dehydrated.
I know he needs another vet visit, with a different vet, but anyway I was hoping for some advice. He seems to be getting better, He is more active and sometimes his eyes are open, but anyway.... I honestly don't expect him to eat tomorrow but fingers crossed. Thanks in advance. I would do the corrections I mentioned...

@kinyonga can you give the OP the info for making the bug mush for force feeding should it be needed.

This image will show you what to gutload with.

View attachment 335862

Man I got to be honest I don't even think you guys are paying attention to me this is been a huge waste of time. Thanks for nothing. You haven't helped one bit. Have a nice day.

 

[Beman]

Man I got to be honest I don't even think you guys are paying attention to me this is been a huge waste of time. Thanks for nothing. You haven't helped one bit. Have a nice day.

Did you not read through every single post I did including the husbandry review? I just even gave you detailed info for how you have to clean with coccidia to ensure there is not reinfection. But we are not paying attention to you? WOW I really hope you go back and read through what I put in for you. Every single bit of info I gave you in your husbandry review and the coccidia info. Without the changes and without cleaning properly your chameleon will suffer. Coccidia is horrible. It makes it so they do not have an appetite and slowly loose weight. The infection takes over their bodies. Without treatment they die. Good luck to you.

 

[MissSkittles]

Man I got to be honest I don't even think you guys are paying attention to me this is been a huge waste of time. Thanks for nothing. You haven't helped one bit. Have a nice day.

You asked for help, you received lots of solid help and now are saying you wasted your time?! No, I think you wasted @Beman and @kinyonga’s time. I just feel bad for your poor chameleon.

 

[kinyonga]

Some information for you @FishFosh …
Coccidiosis…
https://veterinarypartner.vin.com/default.aspx?pid=19239&catId=102919&id=7996794

Read the part on cleaning the cage when your chameleon has coccidia because that’s what you need to do….
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/cage-cleaning-•-sanitation-istyt-part-4-disinfection.2406/

Hope your chameleon recovers And does well for you.

 

[dunney52]

Man I got to be honest I don't even think you guys are paying attention to me this is been a huge waste of time. Thanks for nothing. You haven't helped one bit. Have a nice day.

I'm not sure I understand this response. That said...

Good information from Beman on the H2O2. I've washed cages in the shower before, never using soap or any caustic solvents, because if you look at these things the wrong way, they f%^king croak. I will definitely try it the next time.