Need help, male veiled falling frequently, could it be MBD?

lizziloo

New Member
Hey folks, I'm new here and love the site! I've been trying to find answers elsewhere but to no avail. I need some serious advice. My veiled chameleon, Hassehlhoff :))) is about three years old. I have owned him since I was sixteen. Because I did not research effectively before buying him, he ended up this January with a severe tail infection which has lost him the latter half of his tail. (The vet did not amputate it, but instead got the infection under control and said the dead half would fall off on it's own. It's happening the way she said it would, slowly but surely. My poor guy must still be in a lot of pain from this, as the dead part is still attached about 1/3 of the way around. It gets caught on stuff and really just sucks all around.)

I have been supplementing him with a multivitamin throughout his life, and have recently added a calcium/D3 supplement to the multivitamin. He has always had his flourescent UVA/UVB light (5.0), and was recovering very well from his infection as of last month. His basking area is at a steady 100 degrees, and he has a red lamp at night in case it gets cold. The coldest it gets in my house at night is around 65 degrees F.

However, he has recently (two weeks ago) gone on a hunger and water strike, and last week started falling from vines and branches of his Hibiscus tree. I had him on superworms and crickets as a staple, but have recently found out that this is less than ideal so I have ordered Phoenix worms for him to try, which are yet to come. He won't eat crickets or superworms, and has eaten a few waxworms here and there in the past week. He has passed only three stools since going on his strike. He falls a lot (like once every hour or so at the worst). I put towels in the bottom of his cage to soften his fall. I have inspected his casque and bones for flexibility, and it does not appear to me that he has any form of MBD. Just to be safe I have been sprinkling a pinch of calcium powder into his mouth (he loves it) about once every two days. I have also done this with the multivitamin, because I am concerned about him not eating.

Is there any other explanation for his falling aside from MBD, or do I need to be looking closer at his bones? My boyfriend and his brother both tell me that I need to put more vines and things in the cage, so I am doing this although I don't think it is the reason for his incessant falling. He does have a seemingly sufficient amoung of stuff to get around on, but I am beefing this up because it will not hurt. I have been taking him out into the sun (finally, ND weather has been less than permitting these last few months) and have been showering him three times a week since his water strike began. His water intake has greatly improved, but he still won't eat like he used to. I know he is in a huge amount of pain because of his tail still being semi-attached and all, but need to know if I am doing anything wrong. I love my chameleon and feel that it is extremely unfair to him to be so sick like this. I want him to thrive. Any advice would be excellent, I can also give more info about the lights and brands of supplements and things, but I am not at my house right now so I haven't included them here.

Thanks for reading all that if you did. Help Hasselhoff!! He will love you for it. I will too.
 
First of all...most of the dead part of the tail could be cut off by the vet so that it wouldn't get caught on things. If it can get caught it may open a wound between the live part and the dead part and leave the chameleon open to infection.

You shouldn't need any heat at night unless the temps go below 65C...so I would ditch the red light.

You said you have been giving him a multivitamin all his life...which one? Did you not give him a phos.-free calcium at all?

Can you post some pictures please?

Its hard to tell you if your chameleon is falling due to MBD unless there are obvious signs we can see in a picture....but if you have not been giving him the right supplements and gutloading his insects all of his life then its quite likely.

Can you fill out the questionaire in this link please...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/
 
Picture 013.jpg

Picture 029.jpg

Picture 034.jpg

I need to make a cricket run, so I won't have time to post more until I get back. This is him now. It's practically impossible to get him to stay calm when I photograph him, he's a really cranky dude and fires up at me whenever I come close to the cage.

You know, I am not really sure that my last multi-vitamin/calcium supplement was phosporous free, and I know that the one I am using now is not either. Is this a significant problem?

Below is my attempt at summarizing everything in that checklist:

I have owned Hasselhoff since he was very small, probably only a couple months old. I bought him from Petsmart. He is currently just around three years of age, and he is a male Veiled Chameleon. I handle him about five times a week, when I take him out to shower him and when I put him in the sun. Before I started doing this I was handling him only to apply ointment to his tail and give him antibiotics, which was once a day--sometimes I could do this without picking him up.

I have been feeding him super worms and crickets every day and I dust them with TetraFauna’s ReptoLife and ReptoCal every other feeding. I gut load my crickets using Flukers High-Calcium Cricket Diet and their calcium fortified cricket quencher. I use a drip system in his cage, I mist about three times every day, and have begun to shower him three times a week and am seeing good results from that. His poop has been few and far between in the past two weeks. The last one that I saw was smaller than usual, brown, with a yellowish urate. (This was before I started to shower him).

As for history, I have not had any other medical issues with him aside from his infected/still attached tail. I will ask the veterinarian if she will cut it off for me, but I am waiting on funds to be able to do that. The last time I talked to her was about a month ago, two months after the initial appointment. It was when I noticed dried blood between the tail and the dead part where it had, unfortunately, opened his tail up to infection. After this I gave him another week of antibiotics (he had three weeks worth in the middle of February to clear up his initial infection.) The skin at the bottom of his tail has remained healthy and I have tried to keep the cage absurdly clean. It appears to me that there is no infection at the end of his tail because of this wound, although I do understand that in these circumstances, one is highly likely to develop now.

His cage is all screen, and is 24” by 24” and is 48” high. I have it sitting on a table that is about four feet high, so the top of his cage is about two feet below the ceiling (about eight feet tall). I am using one basking bulb, All Things Living 100w. His fluorescent is ReptiSun 5.0, and I currently have a red bulb in there that I plan on changing out for another UVA/UVB bulb. I do change my UVA/UVBs every six months or so.

The temperature of his cage is 100 degrees in the basking area, and 70 degrees on the cage floor. I am measuring this using standard mercury thermometers. He has assorted little perches he can climb onto to bask in different temps.

As for humidity, I mist every day but have not gotten around to buying a hygrometer. This is something I should probably do. I think that the showers are helping immensely with his shedding, which is the issue that caused the infection I talked about earlier. It is hard to maintain humidity in such a dry state. Any tips on that, btw?

I am using a live Hibiscus plant in his cage, and I shower him on a live Yucca plant, which used to be in his cage but was a poor choice for him to climb around on because he always thought the leaves were more stable than they were and this would result in falls. I am located in Bismarck, North Dakota. The weather has been horrible, but is warming up so I will be able to get him outside for natural sunlight more often.

Thanks for checking it out for me, and thanks for the checklist. Have a good night and let me know what you think.
 
for the hunger strike just mix it up like silkworms, hornworms, and ect.

and i would have the vet cut off the dead part of the tail would stop the pain and he probaly stoped eating because it hurt

Musculoskeletal system: Examine body condition, symmetry, bones and strength of grip. This is an important indicator of nutritional status. Loss of muscle mass is usually seen first over the pelvis and tail base.

hope this helped
 
Nutritional issues aside, he could be falling so much because it is painful to move his spine and hindquarters (because of his tail), he is reluctant to move normally, he's distracted, and misses his grip or has a weak grip in his hind feet. A cham uses its tail as a 5th foot while climbing around. His is damaged now. There's the possibility that a spreading infection from his tail is affecting his spinal muscles too. I'd do whatever you can and have the dead tail removed as soon as you can.
 
The way you described it I thought that the whole end of the tail was necrotic and could easily be amputated....but some of the end of his tail is still alive...so it would have to be a surgical procedure. I wonder if there is some other way to solve the problem of it catching on things.

Did the vet test to see if your chameleon has MBD?
 
This is an off the wall thing but ever branch I saw seemed very small for his feet. I try for a variety of sizes to mimic nature. Phoenix worms seem really small for a male veiled. Hope everything works out well for him.
 
This is an off the wall thing but ever branch I saw seemed very small for his feet. I try for a variety of sizes to mimic nature. Phoenix worms seem really small for a male veiled.

Yup.
Have to agree with Laurie (and Lynda)
The branches are too small.
Also have to agree on the "phoenix worms", I don't think you'll have much success with them as a feeder for him.

-Brad
 
It is hard to maintain humidity in such a dry state. Any tips on that, btw?

Live plants will help keep the humidity up. Some people here wrap three sides of the cage in plastic to help hold the humidity in without loosing ventilation.

You might try to find some of this stuff to make vines:
035307008398.jpg


You can twist to pieces together or braid three pieces to get a variety of thickness.
 
Thanks for all the feedback!! Good point about all the vines being too small. I will try and score some of that green twist tie stuff and see what I can do. Actually, about a day after I posted this, the dead end of his tail fell off on its own. He still has a scab there where it fell off, but it seems to be healing up nicely with the aid of Collosate and he has begun to eat superworms and crickets again. He likes the Phoenix worms, but they are tiny. I'll have to order some silkies soon...

I had him in the vet in February, and she felt his bones and said they seemed to be healthy, but did not run any sort of test to see if he had MBD. I have recently reviewed his nutrition as well and discovered he was getting way too much phos. compared to calcium, so I have switched up his vitamins to rep-cal herptivite and phos-free rep cal. calcium. It was spendy but way worth the price considering the differences between the new and the old.

I may have found another culprit to the falling: damaged nails due to the screen of his cage. I just noticed yesterday that he all out LOST one of his nails, bleeding and all, which is terrible. Any thoughts on how to keep him off the screen? My boyfriend suggested putting garden fabric over the screen. Whats worked for you guys?
 
The green twist tie stuff is usually sold in garden departments. You can call around and ask for it. I have to confess it's become our "go to" solution for just about everything at our house.
 
Yeah! Thanks for the cool tip about the soft twist ties. It's amazingly cheap and effective, plus fun to work with. And it's green, so it looks nice in their cages. Thanks for the thrifty idea, I think most vines at pet stores are around ten bucks for six feet... which is absurd.

I'm waiting on my vet to call me back, I am hoping to get Hass on some anitbiotics. I am concerned about his immune system being compromised because of his sparse eating. Hopefully this will be the last time I need to give him antibiotics.
 
I have the screened caged too and I'm thinking of switching it out for some larger wire fencing. Chams like to climb so the mesh is just not that fair to do to them. They need something to grip on. The problem is feeding them crickets with a cage like that. You'd have crickets all over the damn place. Another thought is to install little bars or larger wire maybe the size of hanger wire over the inside of the screen so they will opt to climb on those before using the screen.

For extra hydration I keep a little filtered humidifier next to his cage. They even make heated ones now.

Hope you're little guy is doing better now. Mine has been falling like once a day and I was searching for info on this, if its natural for them to take a dive now and then or not? Rex is 5 yrs old. He was pretty neglected until I gottem at 4 yrs old. He seems healthy and happy. What are the best ways for them to receive calcium? Powder? Worms? Gutloaded Crickets? All of the above?

Thanks :)
 
Back
Top Bottom