Need dubia help

[QuioteCham]

I bought two colonies of dubias about a week ago. They have a nice 25 gallon tank with screen lid. I provide the wet, hight protein catfood, fish flakes, leafy dark greens and carrots, plus a water dish with a sponge. They are kept in darkness, prettywarm- with egg crate and paper towl rolls for hiding places.

Questions: I never see them eat or near any of the food/ water. Sounds dumb, but how do I know if they are getting the nutritional value needed? How long until they start producing eggs/offspring? whats a good number to get the colony up to in population size before I can start "harvesting" for my zards (I'm feeding several Panther chams, chinese water dragons and beardies). Right now, I think theres about 100 roaches all together including adults, nymphs, etc (This is the 2 colonies combined). Is it safe to combine colonies? (I assume so since there has been no dubia massacre warfare going on that I've seen).

I figure I'm not terrible at this since no one in there is dead yet after a week, but they are roaches- they are said to be immortal during a nuclear explosion. Please let me know if theres anything im missing or need. I got there diet info from a roach vendor site, but if theres anything better or also good for them please let me know. Thanks all!

 

[pssh]

I wouldn't use the cat food or fish flakes as you will have to keep them off of cat food for a very long time before feeding them off.

I would make sure you have at least 50 females and 8-10 males then let them breed until their babies are big enough for your liking then start to feed them off. Less than 50 females and you will have to wait quite a while until your colony is producing quickly. its fine to combine them.

 

[QuioteCham]

Is there a specific reason I shouldnt use the cat or fish food? The site and roach breeders at the pomona herp show both said it was fine and harmless to the herp being fed. I just wanna make sure. And yes, it appears there is a significant number of more females then males.

 

[pssh]

It can couse gout I believe. Something like that. I can't quite remember though, so a search is in order.

 

[QuioteCham]

http://chamworld.blogspot.com/2008/01/health-section-f-gout_28.html

Prevention:
Avoid feeding your chameleon with high protein diet. Your chameleon is a low protein (insects) eater. Therefore, feeding him with high protein (mammals and other vertebrates, i.e.: pinky mice and anoles) feeder EXCESSIVELY can raise the risk of him getting gout.
Avoid feeding your feeder (such as roaches) with high protein gut load (cat food, dog food, and fish flakes). These gut load are fine for your roaches but NOT for your chameleon. If you need your roaches to establish a colony, you may feed them dog food. But avoid feeding the roaches to your chameleon while they are in the dog food regiment. I recommend taking out the roaches that are about to become your chameleon's food and put them on the vegetable gutload diet for at least 24 hours, to ensure there is no more traces of dog food in the roaches' guts.
Monitor the hydration status of your chameleon closely. Dehydration is also a common cause of renal disease that leads to gout.
Symptoms to watch out for:
Swelling joints and reduced mobility (articular gout).
Your chameleon looked painful when climbing or walking (due to this, gout is often misdiagnosed as arthritis).
Over aggressiveness from your chameleon when his joints are touched.
Anorexic and excessive drinking behavior.
Treatment:
Go to the vet ASAP.
Depending on the severity of the case, your chameleon might have to undergo a surgery to remove the excessive tophi.
Prescription medications to dissolve crystals.
Increased misting and water supplies for your sick chameleon.


*After searching around further, I discovered 72 hours is the generally acceptable amount of time between high protein and veggie transitioning.

 

[pssh]

I like to make it a month, I feel like the longer they've been eating good food the better they are in general. I plan on using my roaches more often as they're just getting big enough, and I dont want my chameleon eating dog food leftovers in the roaches.

 

[DGray]

...

Questions: I never see them eat or near any of the food/ water. Sounds dumb, but how do I know if they are getting the nutritional value needed? How long until they start producing eggs/offspring? whats a good number to get the colony up to in population size before I can start "harvesting" for my zards ...

... but if theres anything better or also good for them please let me know. Thanks all!

I got a big colony of B. dubias recently, and they eat a LOT. With all the comments here, I decided against dogfood. They get fruit, leftovers of a starchy nature, and shredded greens. I make a bit of rice with gut-load and wheatgerm for them every other day.

They eat at night. Check it out. If the food is gone in the morning, you're a good cook.

Others will tell you how long you have to wait and how many you can harvest. I started with around a thousand and they are growing in number.

I mostly feed off the youngest ones, and the colony is getting bigger. If you're feeding off the larger ones, you may find the math changes.

 

[xanthoman]

dubia are shy and dont like light or being visible, also better ventilation means less odor, i would think they would do better in an appropriately sized rubbermaid with ventilation added of course, i would combine both colonies into one (h 16 x d 15 x l 20) rubbermaid. healthy dubia consume @ cycle food at an amazing rate and should be free of all previous contents in a matter of days, but there could still be some residual body chemistry of their former diet, so it would be best to wait longer if practical, personally i would just skip the df altogether and go straight to standard roachfood (cham friendly fruits and veggies , and gutload . my gut load contains much of the same, but also contains total cereal, redi brek, or similar, and a small amount of bee pollen, and a tiny amount of calcium (no d3) jmo

 

[Dave Weldon]

...They are kept in darkness, prettywarm- with egg crate and paper towl rolls for hiding places.

Questions: I never see them eat or near any of the food/ water...

Howdy Carol,

I see that you keep them "pretty warm" . I use an under-tank-heater under my 10 gal, blacked-out glass tank. I control the temperature by using what is essentially a light dimmer. I set the tank bottom temp to 90F. It seems to be a reasonable setting. It would be fun to know the absolute optimum temp for breeding . Along with the usual water (soaked make-up pad) , fresh fruits and veggies, I keep a pile of Cricket Crack available almost all of the time. The Crack goes pretty fast .

With the egg crate lifted out of the way:

Interesting story about Dubias and probably true for roaches in general:

One of our SBCK members shipped a batch of Dubia to back east somewhere. They got lost in the mail and came back 40 days later after no food, no water, and I think the box was sealed too . One Dubia died (probably of boredom ). They are basically "bullet-proof". If you should ever want to slowdown production, just keep them cooler and don't feed them.

 

[laurie]

I will tell you the shipping of the Dubai in hot weather can be a problem. I ordered a small colony, about 100, they were shipped priority, took 3 days and when they got here you could smell them before you even saw the box, Part of the problem was nothing for them to climb on so they piled up and the body heat killed them. For some reason the postman seemed rather offended!

 

[Syn]

For some reason the postman seemed rather offended!

LMFAO. Should have taken a picture of the look on his face.

 

[jojackson]

Ditch the wet cat food, it'll end up nasty. Keep them very dry, the fresh carrot is enough moisture. Keep them warm, atleast 75f -80f
(depending on ambient temps) and they will eat more readily.
Good ventilation is a must.
Dave, anything much much above 95f for any length of time and they tend to stop breeding and die.

 

[Dave Weldon]

...Keep them warm, at least 75f -80f...

...Dave, anything much above 95f for any length of time and they tend to stop breeding and die.

Howdy jojackson,

That got me wondering...

I went and measured the bottom of the tank again and it was at 90-92F. I measured the body temp of the roaches to be 77-82F (using a tiny rectal thermometer ). They seem to spend most of their time hanging on the egg crate above the heat pad or on the bottom but not necessarily directly on the 90F heat pad area. So I think you hit the temps right on . I just dropped the temp a couple of degrees to see what they do over the next week or so.

I'm also thinking of trading roaches with other SBCK members to mix-up the roach genetics a bit. I don't have any three-eyed roaches but I also wouldn't want to induce genetic problems from too much inbreeding in the colony .

 

[jojackson]

Yeah thats the main point, they hide in the crate, so its the air temp you establish.
I find below about 60f they slow right down, dont eat as much, and hardly breed either. 60f-90f is a fairly broad but effective range.

Were you kidding about roach genetics?
My colonies are all offspring from an original 1000 I bought about 5 yrs ago.
No mutant freaks yet.
Colony before that lasted about two years, a freakishly cold snap did most of them in.
Mind, mine are not dubia, but a cockroach is a cockroach. mine are Nauphoeta cinerea.

http://www.e-pond.info/roaches.html

 

[DGray]

...

That got me wondering...
I'm also thinking of trading roaches with other SBCK members to mix-up the roach genetics a bit. I don't have any three-eyed roaches but I also wouldn't want to induce genetic problems from too much inbreeding in the colony .

Hey, that sounds like a good idea. My colony would be in for roach wife-swapping. Variety is the spice of life, and all that. I'm in NorCal though. I'll swap with anyone up here who wants too. PM me or whatever.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Dave, anything much much above 95f for any length of time and they tend to stop breeding and die.

Not dubia.
The most prolific breeding here happens in summer when I move them to the garage.
Temps stay at a range of 95 to 105, this results in TONS of offspring!
Two summers ago I was making mortgage payments selling roaches and I invested $0
They eat everything that would otherwise go in the compost pile.

-Brad

 

[robmd1]

lol let me know dave i have a bunch i got from tylene and i havent been feedin them off to get the numbers built up and theres alot so ill swap some with ya if ya want...

 

[jojackson]

Not dubia.
The most prolific breeding here happens in summer when I move them to the garage.
Temps stay at a range of 95 to 105, this results in TONS of offspring!


Well they do say they would survive a nuclear war. Ofcourse they will be 'full steam ahead' at high temps, eat more=crap more! Mine do really well in warmer months too.

 

[Dave Weldon]

lol let me know dave i have a bunch i got from tylene and i havent been feedin them off to get the numbers built up and theres alot so ill swap some with ya if ya want...

Howdy Robbie,

Let's see... If I had already given some of mine to Tylene and Tylene supplied you with some of her's and you supplied some of yours to me then...

 

[sandrachameleon]

I used to worry about roach inbreeding. From my original one male and one female hisser pets, I've grown a colonly now for coming up to ten years. The only slight changes are in colour, which appears to be dependant on what I am feeding them when they are young.

Just this past year I added a couple nymphs from someone elses colony but I doubt new genetics were required. For all I know her roaches were related to mine a few generations back anyhow.

A note about dubia and hisser - both like fall leaves and bark to chew on.

Mine almost never eat meat (including no cat or dog or fish food). Just vegetables, fruits, grains, seeds, nuts... This has not harmed the roaches, and I can be confident that Im not indirectly giving my chameleons animal fat/proteins, I never had to think in advance to separate out a few for a diet change. but if I were using dog food or similar, I sure wouldnt think 72hours was sufficient for cleansing and proper gutloading. Id go at least a week.