HUNYANGOAKO
Member
no idea yet,i'm still waiting for my eggs to hatch..
my translucent veiled
- Thread starter Captive Creations
- Start date
no idea yet,i'm still waiting for my eggs to hatch..
nightcrawler
Avid Member
This wouldn't be considered its own species because humans were selectively breeding for said genes. Back to the dog example, it would be exactly like that. "breeds" Each dog is vastly different the the others, but are all the same species. Simple color variation is not enough to change something to its own species. Just a color morph some people like, or don't like.
Nice pics HUNY
HUNYANGOAKO
Member
Beachbabies
New Member
we're still incubating eggs, but i've been told by other breeders that if you breed visual to visual, all babies come out visual, possibly w/ higher white than the parents, iv've been told that visual to non visual makes 50/50 and the 50% that are visual will have less white. I'm sitting on 8 clutches of eggs from 3 different pairings, so long as my bator holds up, I'll let you know how it goes!
lumbasammler
New Member
Looks like your guy had or has a problem with proper calcification.
Looks good anyways, even if i still do not like this breed!
Mario Vermunt
Member
Sorry to say but camimom is totally wrong that this gene thread came from WC animals. JackP308 is exactly right with his first statement in this thread.
These translucents (pie ball) originate from the Netherlands where a certain breeder put brother on sister multiple (many) generations. (i am from the netherlands called the guy personally first time he posted a pic of the original few babies that appeared)
30 years ago, 12 veileds entered the netherlands.
Out of these these this thread has arrised just suddenly, confirmed by the original breeder to me back then, he then even thought they might become albino, which ofcourse will not. Nothing to do with WC animals having the gene thread either.
The breeder made big money by doing so. (asking upto 1250 euros each)
This has been ongoing i think from (estimate start 7-10 years ago?) I think never anyone will reach full translucent, as i understood from a guy breeding (the 2nd one that ever had them, he was the first buyer from the original one) if they get more translucent they die very easy already as a baby. Should have been reached already full translucent i guess if all was ok, with so many translucents veileds hatched in all those years... The more translucent the easier MBD symptoms are seen. So anyone thinking its not harming the animals?
Personal thoughts:
Might be they D3 production gets problematic in the translucent skin.
Full translucent? i think you might get the point?
These translucents (pie ball) originate from the Netherlands where a certain breeder put brother on sister multiple (many) generations. (i am from the netherlands called the guy personally first time he posted a pic of the original few babies that appeared)
30 years ago, 12 veileds entered the netherlands.
Out of these these this thread has arrised just suddenly, confirmed by the original breeder to me back then, he then even thought they might become albino, which ofcourse will not. Nothing to do with WC animals having the gene thread either.
The breeder made big money by doing so. (asking upto 1250 euros each)
This has been ongoing i think from (estimate start 7-10 years ago?) I think never anyone will reach full translucent, as i understood from a guy breeding (the 2nd one that ever had them, he was the first buyer from the original one) if they get more translucent they die very easy already as a baby. Should have been reached already full translucent i guess if all was ok, with so many translucents veileds hatched in all those years... The more translucent the easier MBD symptoms are seen. So anyone thinking its not harming the animals?
Personal thoughts:
Might be they D3 production gets problematic in the translucent skin.
Full translucent? i think you might get the point?
Mario Vermunt
Member
Link to the site of the original breeder:
http://members.multimania.nl/calyp/ned06.html
Kees Bout
He made a exclusive deal with an exporter to also export to US and Asia, as their might be a market for these animals there, on the dutch chameleon forum and a publication in its quarterly paper, this multiple breeding of brother/sister was generally not really appreciated.
http://members.multimania.nl/calyp/ned06.html
Kees Bout
He made a exclusive deal with an exporter to also export to US and Asia, as their might be a market for these animals there, on the dutch chameleon forum and a publication in its quarterly paper, this multiple breeding of brother/sister was generally not really appreciated.
Carlton
Chameleon Enthusiast
This is what would concern me about selecting for the translucent trait unless the resulting chams are very carefully screened for health. I doubt translucency interferes with communcation a lot (probably doesn't because chams posture and move in addition to color display), but that it could predispose a cham to thermal or UV burns, cancers, skin scarring, etc. After all, opaque skin color is protective too! Or, even worse, there could be an internal defect that rides along WITH the translucent skin color. Affected chams could be prone to organ problems (defects in skin could also show up in other structures).
I know it's personal preference, but to me a translucent (that can't change color in those areas) form of a color displaying animal just seems bizarre. I don't like piebald snakes either. Their beautiful coloration is what makes them unique. Other animals bred for specific looks suffer from all sorts of health problems aside from those due to excessive inbreeding. I wouldn't want to degrade the few captive cham bloodlines we have for a defect like this.
pssh
Avid Member
According to flchams, who were the first to produce the trans chams in the US, they are from the wild. They also out bred the animals to normal animals and then rebred the offspring to expand the genetic pool.
http://www.flchams.com/inventory_all.asp?id=1036&cham=Veiled Chameleon Morphs For Sale
http://www.flchams.com/inventory_all.asp?id=1036&cham=Veiled Chameleon Morphs For Sale
camimom
New Member
Thank you.
someone said i was wrong and that they didnt come from the wild. but instead from inbreeding.
i didnt feel like taking the time to respond back. even though i read it on the fl chams website.
well there is proof you shouldn't believe everything you read. You didn't take the time to respond because you apparently don't know what you are talking about and going by something you read of FL Chams website. By the way where does it say on their site they originated from the wild? I see they bred them with WC females. I find it hard to believe someone online as much as you and close to 4000 posts in a year didn't feel like taking the time to respond.
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camimom
New Member
no need to get rude. i didnt take the time to respond because i simply wasnt in the mood to deal with another debate. I know what im talking about regarding the things ive posted.
NTM i already stated what was my opinion, not osmething i said was based on 100% facts.
I didnt take the time to respond because it would have involved taking up more time to come up with a logical response.
if you look at the times of my posts, you will see its during the day, when im at work.
once i get home, i have things to do, like spend time with my family. at work, i am not always busy.
i cannot comment more on some of the newer issues coming up regarding trans veileds because i have not done extensive reseach on them.
Your so funny Im actually smiling at my desk 
Have good day. Im glad you know what your talking about. Since I really don't have a clue other than its a Defect. Im not claiming to know anything I just thinks its weird how you know so much about them but won't take the time to explain to all us interested because you at home now. Good Night
Have good day. Im glad you know what your talking about. Since I really don't have a clue other than its a Defect. Im not claiming to know anything I just thinks its weird how you know so much about them but won't take the time to explain to all us interested because you at home now. Good Night
camimom
New Member
Your so funny Im actually smiling at my desk
I will absolutely respond. when i have more time.
i do not spend every waking second on this forum.
I do have a life outside this website.
and so happy i can entertain you.
thank you. and good night to you too.
id imagine in the long run of course the chameleon was from the wild they didn't clone them then genetically breed them. I don't think there are these chameleons running around in the wild naturally. Who knows maybe Mike knows where the location is please let me know then.
pssh
Avid Member
That's what I'm saying. They are from the wild, while the other fellow, Mario, is saying they are not from the wild at all. You said not to trust the internet in what I assume was an endeavor to support Mario. Or I suppose it could have been an attempt at trying to reject camimom or myself. I'm not understanding what you are attempting to get at?
