My chameleon died sadly, anyone think they could give me a husbandry review so I don't make the same mistake next time?

[silas.edwin.johnson]

Hey guys so, I got a female panther chameleon from a pretty well respected breeder and sadly just two weeks after I got her, she died. And I love chameleons a lot, and definitely want to get another one at some point but I really want to make sure that my husbandry is on point before I do. I'll post a picture of the cage and generally describe my husbandry here:

- 36 x 24 x 18, glass cage on all sides except for top and one of the smaller sides.
- humidity was 90% during the night and I believe would go down to 30% during the day
- Used fogger between 2 and 7 AM
- Mist king would go off at midnight and then again at 10 AM (this is because she really never drank water when she woke up, so I decided to give her water a bit later)
- Heat lamp gave her a basking spot at 85 °F and an ambient temperature of on average 75 °F (the coldest part of cage is 68 °F).
- Arcadia 6% T5HO UVB gave her a basking spot at 2.5 UVI
- Food was originally 15 BSFL/day, but I recently started giving her 12 medium sized dubia roaches/day which were dusted with Arcadia ProA.
- The bottom of the cage was soil, with the plants placed in the soil in their pots.
- Soil was half sand and half peat moss (this was put on the top few inches of the plants pots) as well.
- A cleanup crew also was there to clean up poop, but I did spot cleaning bc I don't think I had enough isopods.
- Plants were all washed in the appropriate manner
- She had a small laying bin (8 x 6 inch) which I was intending to replace with a bigger one as she got closer to laying age.
- One of my plants (despite being quarantined) developed a fungus gnat infection and there was often some gnats in the cage.
- One day, because I think my humidity was too high, I noticed that the branches had some kind of dark surface on them (I think mold) and in my laying bin was a mushroom fungus which died off the next day. Maybe the whole cage had that fungus, I'm not quite sure.

Now, her behavior was kind of interesting.
- She had absolutely no signs of being unhealthy, no sunken-in eyes, no excessive gaping or hissing, never had closed eyes during the day.
- The thing that was the most concerning was her color. She would often become really dark even when she wasn't basking. In the last few days of her life, she was dark less and less.
- I also never saw her drink water, but her poop was usually pretty moist and I didn't see any of the orange crust you usually see with dehydrated chams.
- In the last few days of her life though I have struggled to locate any poop.

Obviously really sad, she was an awesome chameleon. I have really grown to appreciate female chameleons in the short time I had her. I definitely want to try again in the future, ideally in the next few months after I can adjust any problems with my husbandry. Thank you so much for any advice you could give.

 

[MissSkittles]

I’m so sorry that your little lady passed away. I’ll go thru your husbandry, but I do have some questions. Do you have any photos of her in her last days? How old was she? Had you ever taken her to a vet or had done any fecal testing for parasites?

 

[ehdee6]

I'm sorry for your loss, two weeks is really sudden.

Lots of pictures of her please, including as recent as when she arrived until the last one you took. How old was she? What all were you feeding her, just BSFL and roaches?

I'm not sure about bioactive, MissSkittles can comment more. That's an interesting combination of potted plants and bioactive bottom.

Sorry again, I know you put a lot of research into getting a Cham.

 

[MissSkittles]

My feedback will be in bold.
- 36 x 24 x 18, glass cage on all sides except for top and one of the smaller sides. The smaller side - I assume is screened, but is it the entire side or just a small part of it?
- humidity was 90% during the night and I believe would go down to 30% during the day Did you not measure it during the day? 30% is quite low for a panther, but it would not prove fatal.
- Used fogger between 2 and 7 AM What were the temps at night when you were fogging?
- Mist king would go off at midnight and then again at 10 AM (this is because she really never drank water when she woke up, so I decided to give her water a bit later) Is this the only times you misted? How long was the misting for? What color were her urates? Did you know that many/most chameleons are secretive about drinking and it is not at all unusual to never see one drink? Still, we want to provide misting sessions of at least 2 full minutes, at least twice daily (before lights go on and go off). We look to the urates to gauge hydration status and if we need to add an additional misting or dripper. Not being adequately hydrated can cause kidney impairment/failure, either chronic or acute. It can also affect the bowel movements, making them harder and drier.
- Heat lamp gave her a basking spot at 85 °F This is a bit too high for a girl. For young/baby chameleons and girls, we don’t want basking temps to go any higher than 80F. and an ambient temperature of on average 75 °F (the coldest part of cage is 68 °F).
- Arcadia 6% T5HO UVB gave her a basking spot at 2.5 UVI Do you have a solarmeter? If not, how did you measure this? What was the distance between her basking branch and the lights?
- Food was originally 15 BSFL/day, but I recently started giving her 12 medium sized dubia roaches/day This is an oddly specific diet. Is there any particular reason for choosing it to be like this? Both are good staple feeders, but I question the exclusivity of giving any one specific feeder without any variety. I know you didn’t have her for very long, but more variety would definitely be much much better. For example, my two main staple feeders are crickets and roaches. I like to give a couple of those with a couple of other feeders, like silkworms or bsfl, maybe a superworm or waxworms treat, etc. which were dusted with Arcadia ProA. Is this the only supplement that you used? Were you planning on using the full Arcadia supplement regimen? The EarthProA is ok, but it is not complete in itself and I believe is just a calcium plus some minerals. She would also be needing some multivitamins and Vutamin D3. If not following the full Arcadia regiment, you would want to use a combination product, like Repashy calcium plus LoD or ReptiVite with D3 at one feeding every other week. Do you know what the breeder used for supplements?
- The bottom of the cage was soil, with the plants placed in the soil in their pots.
- Soil was half sand and half peat moss (this was put on the top few inches of the plants pots) as well. What about a drainage layer? So, technically, the addition of soil substrate and a clean up crew could be considered bioactive, you really need to put in a bit more work to set it up properly. If you want me to go over that with you, I will. Otherwise I’ll leave this comment as is for now.
- A cleanup crew also was there to clean up poop, but I did spot cleaning bc I don't think I had enough isopods. When their basic needs are provided, they will multiply.
- Plants were all washed in the appropriate manner Can you be more specific? Did you use any soap or cleanser? What about rinsing?
- She had a small laying bin (8 x 6 inch) which I was intending to replace with a bigger one as she got closer to laying age. Most definitely a bigger one would be better. Even though they use just a tiny corner, they do like having space to maneuver.
- One of my plants (despite being quarantined) developed a fungus gnat infection and there was often some gnats in the cage. It happens. Soil gnats are inescapable.
- One day, because I think my humidity was too high, I noticed that the branches had some kind of dark surface on them (I think mold) and in my laying bin was a mushroom fungus which died off the next day. Maybe the whole cage had that fungus, I'm not quite sure. This can go back to having your bioactive set up properly with a drainage layer. While mushrooms are actually a sign of a healthy set up and nothing to worry about, mold on the other hand is not good.

Now, her behavior was kind of interesting.
- She had absolutely no signs of being unhealthy, no sunken-in eyes, no excessive gaping or hissing, never had closed eyes during the day. Was she active and moving around? What part of the enclosure was she favoring - basking level, lower levels, etc? Did she ever sit with her head pointed up, like Star-gazing?
- The thing that was the most concerning was her color. She would often become really dark even when she wasn't basking. In the last few days of her life, she was dark less and less. Generally they will darken in attempts to warm up or better absorb uvb. What is your uvb sitting on? Is it glass, screen, plastic, what?
- I also never saw her drink water, but her poop was usually pretty moist and I didn't see any of the orange crust you usually see with dehydrated chams. Refer back to my feedback about water and hydration.
- In the last few days of her life though I have struggled to locate any poop. About how long ago did you find a poop from her? Was she eating normally right up until passing? How did she pass? Did she have any time of failing or ailing or did you just one day find her at the bottom, already gone?
You haven’t mentioned anything about where her enclosure was located, how often she was handled, what her regular or normal views were of. For example, was her enclosure sitting on the floor of a heavy traffic room with maybe a cat or dog staring at her half the day? We humans are used to stress and while it can kill us eventually, it takes a long long time to do so. Chameleons and some other animals have a much much lower tolerance and higher fatality rate to stress.

 

[MissSkittles]

While it’s near impossible for me or even you to have 100% of the details, based on what you’ve said, I don’t really see anything jumping out at me which would prove fatal in just a period of a couple of weeks. The biggest areas I see that could potentially contribute are: hydration - was she getting enough water every day to keep her kidneys working well?
Possibly supplementation depending on what the breeder was using or not using.
Respiratory infection or perhaps something related to unhealthy mold in the enclosure.
Chronic stress maybe.
She may have just had some sort of condition or defect that was imperceptible, like maybe a bad heart or other system. Who really knows. We always assume that every chameleon/animal is 100% healthy, but it just isn’t so.
Egg binding? Was she even old enough? Was she overly active or lethargic?

You do need to make some changes if you choose to try again, and I strongly suggest breaking everything down completely. Wash and sanitize the enclosure very well. There are several good products, like what veterinarians use. In addition to that, consider using a steam cleaner to heat sterilize. Avoid strong or caustic products and make sure to rinse rinse rinse after cleaning. You don’t need to throw the plants away, but I would get all new ones and new soil for them. After getting rid of as much soil as I can from the roots, I wash my plants with a bucket of soapy water (I use Dawn original dish soap), dunking them repeatedly upside down and massage the leaves in the water too. Then it’s rinse rinse rinse and rinse again, as well as removing the rest of the soil from the roots with the water from the hose. Plants and bioactive needs a drainage layer of some sort of rock or clay. Not only do you not want the roots sitting in water all the time getting root rot, but there also needs to be some way for the soil to dry out or you’ll get mold and disgusting bacterial muck.
Get all new branches and vines too and I wash mine the same as I do my plants.
If you are going to go bioactive again, then we need to talk more about proper set up. You’ll need to have it all set up and running a few cycles to ensure everything is within desired parameters and give your clean up crew some time to settle in. However, I would also suggest getting a quarantine basic set up to use until you get a clean bill of health (no parasites).
Lastly, once you have the date that you’ll be expecting your new chameleon, call and set up a veterinary wellness visit and get a fecal done for parasites! Once you get the all clear, your new friend can go in the full enclosure.
If you want help as you go step by step, you don’t even have to ask…just post.