Mister Twister has a bit of the wobblies! HELP!

If you need to add warmth at night, there are "lightless" bulbs that can help you without disturbing his "dark/light" cycle. Try dripping water onto his nose. That's usually a great way to stimulate drinking.

I've seen it suggested that you can try feeding a little pear baby food to stimulate pooping. Increasing hydration in general is going to help with that.
 
While he is on baytril be real careful to keep him well hydrated. Baytril can be pretty hard on chams. Also if you want you could get a few eggs crates, thke the crickets out of what they are in, put them on egg crates and just give the water plus veggies & fruit. It will make them healthier for your guy to eat.

But long term, we have some excellent blogs on how and with what to gut load feeders. Just let me know when you are ready.
 
The crickets are stored in a ventilated cottage cheese or big yogurt container. The powder from the rat food is just a light dusting around the bottom edges of the container but I was using it to keep the container a bit cleaner and drier and change it often because when I put the fruit and veggies in with the crickets, they used to get to moist and stinky and were dying off. It doesn't seem like they are consuming very much of it but the fruit and veggies disappear quickly. Same with the egg crate bits--they get soggy and stinky, but the dusty stuff absorbs it and between batches of crickets I clean the container and change the dust. So I do gutload with the good stuff and figured if the crickets ate a bit of it too it wouldn't be too bad? Please let me know what you think. Right now, until I find out if it is good or bad, I have removed it from the cricket and worm containers and the crickets are getting stinky already!
I didn't use my brain and really research all the contents. Mazuri produces excellent high-quality feed and since it said also for reptiles, that was good enuf for me (at the time) since I was just using it to keep the ammonia stink away and keep the crickets from getting so damp from the goodies I give them for the gutloading. It is a Mazuri exotic animal feed for critters and since it said reptiles, I thought it was safe.

Here is all the pertinent info from the bag:

Mazuri® Description
A diet designed for feeding rats and mice which are maintained in breeding colonies and intended for use as food for other species (such as reptiles).
Features
 Contains yucca shidigera - shown to reduce aerosol ammonia in animal facilities.

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude protein not less than ....................... 16.0%
Crude fat not less than ................................ 6.0%
Crude fiber not more than ........................... 6.0%
Ingredients
Ground corn, dehulled soybean meal, ground oats, porcine animal fat preserved with BHA, cane molasses, wheat middlings, dehydrated alfalfa meal, ground wheat, ground soybean hulls, calcium carbonate, fish meal, salt, brewers dried yeast, dicalcium phosphate, monocalcium phosphate, dried beet pulp, wheat germ, corn gluten meal, soybean oil, menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite (vitamin K), pyridoxine hydrochloride, DL-methionine, choline chloride, dried yucca shidigera extract, cholecalciferol (vitamin D3), thiamin mononitrate, folic acid, biotin, dl-alpha tocopheryl acetate (vitamin E), calcium pantothenate, vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, nicotinic acid, vitamin A acetate, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, ferrous carbonate, copper sulfate, zinc sulfate, calcium iodate, cobalt carbonate.

Please help me out! Should I stop using this?
 
Elizadolots said:
If you need to add warmth at night, there are "lightless" bulbs that can help you without disturbing his "dark/light" cycle. Try dripping water onto his nose. That's usually a great way to stimulate drinking.

I've seen it suggested that you can try feeding a little pear baby food to stimulate pooping. Increasing hydration in general is going to help with that.
Click to expand...
Since I removed the substrate from his house, maintaining humidity is the pits!!
I am planning on getting more plants that are on the safe list and that should help.

Also on the to do list is researching the ceramic heat emitters. They would be a good heat source (as long as he can get away from it also) but they are good for dehumidifying! So, I am looking into maybe getting one of those and then upgrading the water system? Water has always been an issue for Mister:

When he was brand new, Mister would only drink water as it ran down the glass in his cage. I was so worried about his getting enough water that I put the dripper system in so that it constantly dripped down the leaves and stem of his bamboo. I worked really hard with him so that he would learn to drink from the leaves as they dripped and that didn't go over real well with him. He would just sit and stare at where the drips were coming in. Sometimes he would aim and try to catch them as the drips were just about to fall but he missed quite a bit and and it seems like he would get discouraged and just wait for me to mist. Catching the drips meant that he had water available all the time so it was better but he still acted so thirsty when I misted and it was pitiful watching him working so hard to lick the water off the glass.
So I started offering straight from the dripper two or three times a day and he would always take at least a little straight from the tube. When he was done, I reset the dripper and let it drip off the bamboo the rest of the time. But when he drinks off the leaves, sometimes I see him biting the leaves and shaking his head back and forth until he could back up enough to get the leaf to slip out of his mouth (at first I thought maybe he was trying to eat the leaf but that wasn't it, he doesn't tear the leaves, just wants it out of his mouth). Anyway, with the dripper on, he got to where it was rare for him to have to resort to the glass licking So, I made a water bottle for him with an aquarium air valve with two valves on it so I can use the same bottle with one valve dripping very slowly down the bamboo and the other valve with a length of air hose running into his cage that drips once every 3 to 5 seconds, and so far, he really gets most of his water from the airhose from his drip system and has a hard time getting the moisture as it drips off the leaves (that is why I put the tube in in the first place. I guess I could probably run the drip system even if I get Mister a mister for his house, huh?

Just one more example of him being our "special need" baby... lol
 
They are "special needs" babies indeed, but once you get it all set up, it will be easy.

You're very right that adding live plants will help with the humidity. If you can have those plants in terracotta pots, it will be even better. The ceramic heat emitters are a great idea for a house that gets too cold at night.
 
Does his drinking issue sound about typical to you or "slower" than most?

And, thanks for all the help and support! Right now, I feel pretty needy and slow myself in trying to figure him out.
 
I have one chameleon I've had for a year and I've only seen him drink twice.

I count on the poop to tell me if he's drinking.

So, to me, it sounds like he's a good drinker (I have a good drinker too...what a joy!).

We all need to support each other. I'm glad if I can be of any help.
 
Update: Now I'm sure he is broken!!!!

I know that he had worms and that is supposedly what caused him to get wimpy and wobbly. Last Friday's vet visit was for that, and I figured we would be on the road to recovery soon...

Not to be, quite yet. When I got home to take him to the vet, I know he must have fallen becuase he was about 1/3 of the way climbing up the back wall of his abode.

After the vet visit where we didn't do new x-rays (dammit) because his bones looked so good 3 mos. ago and the vet was certain that MBD wasn't a concern and his bones all felt fine, Mister continued his downhill slide.

He has gotten pretty listless and is laying around in a nest box that I put him in in his cage. Since he has been so lethargic, he had not been hanging on quite so much when I handled him and I noticed that his right front leg was even wimpier than the rest of him. Night before last when I was putting him back in after feeding, watering, and medicating him, his leg up by the shoulder leg made this gut wrenching grinding noise/feel. I am pretty sure it is broken!!!

No wonder he has continued to get worse! Poor little guy has got to be hurting something awful! And I have been wallering him around!

Thanks to forum reading and private suggestions, I got some vet-wrap (the stuff that sticks to itself) and loosely wrapped him up so that that leg is tucked up against his body. I think the break is too close to his shoulder to splint it any other way.

We have an appointment on Friday afternoon, but does anyone have any suggestions of what I can do for him until then, especially for the pain? Also, he does not want to eat or drink and still hasn't pooped (one week tomorrow). Should I just leave him alone until the vet appointment or should I continue giving him water, pear babyfood, calcium injected wax worm, and rept-aid every day?

Thanks for the help so far and I am looking forward to any advice I can get!
 
Sounds like MBD. I would up his dose of liquid calcium and get him some silkworms and butter worms they are high in calcium. I would also give him a drop or two of mineral oil to help him poop. What did the new Xrays show?
 
jannb said:
Sounds like MBD. I would up his dose of liquid calcium and get him some silkworms and butter worms they are high in calcium. I would also give him a drop or two of mineral oil to help him poop. What did the new Xrays show?
Click to expand...
Jannb:

Vet looked over the x-rays from 3 months ago and after asking many questions and the physical exam where he felt Mister's casque, jaw, spine and legs, he said there was no need to do x-rays this time and that it was not mbd and went looking for other problems.

Did the fecal exam and found the worms (I will ask exactly what they found) and decided that Mister's problems were from the worms and dosed him for that. Said that he might have some tummy problems too and gave the Baytril to cut the chances of infection in the gut.

I wish we had done x-rays this last visit but I am sure that we will do x-rays during his appt. this coming Friday.

The reptile store here in town is in the process of getting butterworms and silkworms for their supplies and I am looking forward to that and will give them a try.
 
Extra calcium wouldn't hurt. Especially as you believe he has a break.

I'm going to suggest that another round of x-rays is probably in order. If for no other reason than to asses the break. I also think that with a young chameleon, 3 month old x-rays aren't the best thing to use to say "there's no MBD!".
 
I kind of thought it was strange and expected to have to pay for x-rays because I was so afraid it was the beginning of MBD (even though I do all the supplements and gutloading, ect. that you wonderfully helpful people have told me about). But I was so relieved and ecstatic when he said that it wasn't MBD that I got kinda brain-dead.

I will be clear-headed this trip and x-rays have already been ordered! But I truly am hoping that MBD is not in the diagnosis, kinda curious that he may have broken his leg falling to the bottom of his cage though isn't it? I don't think there is anything that he could have gotten it caught in...
 
While he heals I would put him in a small cage or lay his cage on the side so he can't fall and hurt himself.
 
jannb said:
While he heals I would put him in a small cage or lay his cage on the side so he can't fall and hurt himself.
Click to expand...
We go back to the vet for x-rays, etc. tomorrow afternoon finally.

For now, his leg is wrapped to his body for some stability and since he hasn't been moving around much, I have him in a plastic shoebox with a branch and some leaves around him.

Since I found the break? I have not been moving him and only handling him once a day and he is alot more alert but still not very active at all.

Will post an update after the vet visit...
 
UPDATE: On the road to recovery?

I am so thrilled! I came home from work to take Mr. Twister to his vet appointment to find that he had pulled his front half up onto the branch in his "hospital bin"! And his eyes were open and he was just perched there looking around...

Then, the vet visit was great news too. Well, sort of:

Yes, Mr.'s leg is broken way up close to his shoulder.
I got pain meds (Metacam) to give him to help him get along better while he lives for the next 6-8 weeks with his leg wrapped to his body.

No, he doesn't have MBD. (so the doc is perplexed as to why and how the leg broke). And he doesn't want to go overboard on calcium injections unless there is still no sign of healing in a few weeks.

They also gave him another dose for rehydration just cuz it couldn't hurt. Mr. wasn't overly dehydrated and has only lost 5 grams throughout all of this.
And, hopefully, that will help him to poop, also.

Personally, I think Rept-Aid has really helped out more than anything meds-wise. Until I started giving him that, I really wasn't seeing any improvement and was thankful every morning to find that the little guy had lived through the night. I really was worried.

Even more helpful than the Rept-Aid though, is the advice and support I've gotten here on the forum. And the doc seemed pleasantly surprised that we've all been working so hard to pull Mr. through this.

The pear baby food is good advice.
Injecting the meds into the waxworms to keep him from aspirating his meds and fluids: great advice.
How I had Mr.'s leg wrapped: good job.
The supplementation schedule I got on here is sound advice. If not for that, then his bones would have been softer and I would need to give him extra calcium. With Mister's bone structure, extra calcium might boost the healing of the bone, but with his issues, doc is afraid it would be too much calcium and cause more problems than this little guy needs right now.

As close as the break is to the shoulder, it would be a very tough surgery to pin the leg and doc really doesn't think Mister is strong enough to survive the surgery right now. If the bone fails to heal, doc will re-evaluate then but really hopes this heals in the splint wrap because there just isn't enough bone above the break to make this an easy fix and lots of pinned bones tend to break just above or below the pins.

Doc agrees with the temp ranges I learned on here for most chams. But, since Mister is special needs, he suggested I bump those temps up a bit. The only thing I know is that since I have been keeping him around 80C his colors are alot more brilliant. (And, even more so it seems since we started the Rept-Aid?)

Doc also agrees with the info about light and dark. So, I am getting a ceramic heat emitter that will not brighten the night at all since night time plays an important part in metabolism, etc. and Mister needs all the help he can get. Not to say the Heat-Glo is bad for all chams, so do well with them. But this little guy...

Oh, Mister had long worms. Paradalis? I think that was what he said. And, he couldn't be re-tested yet to see if they are clearing up because there still is no fecal to test. I said that was a real worry for me and he told me to relax and give it some more time and to call if there is still nothing in another week... So, you guys were right on with that one too!

So, overall, the forum did so much more for Mister than the vet visit did although the pain med will help out. But the vet visit put my mind at ease that I am doing everything I can for the poor little guy.

So far, so good. Thanks again for all the info. and support I have been given through this. We couldn't have made it this far without all of you. And, on that note, I'm heading to bed, maybe I can get some sleep tonight...
 
Thanks for the update. It sounds like Mister is on the upswing, that's definitely good. This was a good way to start the morning.
 
Poop!!!

Finally, whew!

Mister is a toughie. Maybe he isn't out of the woods yet. But we have more progress today. He has been more alert throughout the day and is only napping about half the time. He's been moving around more too and was trying so hard to climb up on the branch in his hospital bin, so I helped him up there and he hung on and napped a bit without tipping over.

About two hours later, there it was. Let's just say, it looks like he is getting a clean start in that department! And, he won't be getting near as many of his favorite mealworms... ewww.

Tomorrow, we get to learn the best placement for the new heat emitter and get rid of the Heat-Glo so he will have darker nights. And I got one of those glow-shades for his new Repti-Glo so it won't just blink into nighttime but fade into it. I think its neat, and hope he does too?
 
Even better news?

He escaped his hospital bin.

I had it inside his viv and he managed to climb out of the bin up on to his favorite vine! I didn't have the heart to put him back yet so I rigged up a landing net in case he falls and he has moved a little further up. Maybe I should just leave him be?
 
I'd consider that a good sign. Just make it so he can't take a hard fall and let him do what he can do.

Yay! I love when they get enthusiastic again!
 
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