Meller's

[Angelwolf]

Usually they do best in free ranges or very large room-sized enclosures. They need huge amounts of misting/humidity. I don't just mean frequent intervals I mean very long times 30 minutes or more for morning mistings. So you have to be ready to be able to provide this without flooding. So just be careful and plan. You need to research them extensively. I would seriously read a ton of Joel's more recent threads it goes from conditioning the Meller's wildcaughts he gets, to the laying procedures, to some of incubating, and a lot of raising the babies. These guys eat tons and tons of insects.

This is possibly why they are so hard to find in captivity. It sounds like they require more money, care, and attention than the average keeper can accommodate. Sounds like a very challenging species to keep successfully.

 

[Twitchet]

I'm hoping to add a cb mellers here oneday! Nearly got one a few months ago but missed out by a few days grrr

 

[JoeDigiorgio]

Sent a message to FLChams today to see if they could help me. Awaiting response.

 

[JoeDigiorgio]

Has anyone heard of Two Amigos Imports and Exports in Miami? Google search of reptile importers in Florida showed them but no telephone answer. Could just be because of the holiday week I suppose.

 

[Andee]

This is possibly why they are so hard to find in captivity. It sounds like they require more money, care, and attention than the average keeper can accommodate. Sounds like a very challenging species to keep successfully.

In my opinion they don't require much more than any of the other giant species or stranger species to find. They just require different things and lots of research is the only way to find it. I definitely don't suggest them for someone who hasn't kept a montane that is simpler for upkeep (like a Jackson). In my opinion, all of the less common species are not readily available in captivity for a very obvious reason. Because the beginner keepers often do not do enough research to keep them alive. Mellers sadly cost very little for how hard they are to keep compared to panthers, they cost more around the price of a veiled. I feel if I had the space for one I could take on a mellers and be fine. However I would prefer to be able to make a green house like free range for any giant species I take on. I definitely don't recommend them for beginner keepers but above half of beginner keepers usually buy chameleons on an impulse buy and follow petstore directions in the beginning. Then the love starts and you never leave the world of chameleons. Idk, I definitely think mellers require a lot of space. But in my opinion most regular species, like veileds and panthers would do better with more space than the cage minimum most people put them in. The start up cost for equipment otherwise doesn't cost any different for what I view necessary for any chameleon.

 

[JoeDigiorgio]

I'm going to find these things. Idk how yet but I will.

 

[jajeanpierre]

This is possibly why they are so hard to find in captivity. It sounds like they require more money, care, and attention than the average keeper can accommodate. Sounds like a very challenging species to keep successfully.

@Angelwolf They are imported in fairly large numbers, so should be very common in captivity.
The real reason they are not so common is they tend to die. They have the unenviable nick name of "The Ninety-Day Chameleon" meaning they are dead within three months. They are regularly imported and are not uncommon.

They don't handle import well at all and you have to be really observant with them. They seem to be doing well and then just crash. You can get them good again and they'll crash again. You look at them and they look fantastic but as soon as you turn your back, they deflate and look like shriveled prunes waiting to die. Literally, as soon as you turn your back. But if you see them looking bad out of the corner of your eye and look at them they look terrific.

I also think caging is a big issue with them--they need a lot of horizontal space and don't seem to want to be confined. They seem to shut down in narrow cages.

I think they are a very hardy animal if you can get them past import although sometimes the effects of severe dehydration will cause kidney problems down the road. Joel doesn't seem to kill them even if I take care of them for a few days to a couple of weeks before he gets them. They are a neat animal, one I will get at some point.

 

[jpowell86]

Hello @JoeDigiorgio. Sorry for the late entrance to your thread. I have been away from the forums for a couple of weeks or so. Tis the season and all of that.

Melleri.....my favorite species. They are great to work with and are a very rewarding species. I currently work with 32 melleri with origins to Tanzania and 4 melleri that are from Mozambique. Tanzania is currently closed and all the melleri coming in state side are from Mozambique. They are a more gracile type animal and super pissy. Melleri are finicky in the beginning. They also don't come in nice like the Madagascar animals. I have been working with them for roughly 7 years and my oldest melleri is presently 6 years old. I feel like I have figured them out, but there is always more to learn.

Mentioned above was the comment that they require more money to care for. This can be true and false. One thing that is true, is that they should NOT be compared to parsonii. Parsonii are stagnant creatures compared to melleri. Most keepers of parsonii have great success in enclosures that are more on the small side in relation to their size. And if you saw the cages it wouldn't register that an animal that size could be doing so well in an enclosure that size. But melleri need ROOM. They are incredibly active. Watching them over time, I have realized that one of their largest stressors is visual boundaries. That is why I keep mine in greenhouses now. The difference is night and day. They will also utilize all areas of their enclosure. This is where the money issue comes into play. You have to be able to accommodate this need. That doesn't mean you have to spend a ton of money if you are handy. I built my greenhouses and was able to cut costs that way.

I can give you more information if you need it. I know you are looking to get some melleri. I will reply to your PM in regards to that. Glad to see someone else getting interested in keeping this species. They are really the best in regards to having a chameleon with personality.

 

[JoeDigiorgio]

Hello @JoeDigiorgio. Sorry for the late entrance to your thread. I have been away from the forums for a couple of weeks or so. Tis the season and all of that.

Melleri.....my favorite species. They are great to work with and are a very rewarding species. I currently work with 32 melleri with origins to Tanzania and 4 melleri that are from Mozambique. Tanzania is currently closed and all the melleri coming in state side are from Mozambique. They are a more gracile type animal and super pissy. Melleri are finicky in the beginning. They also don't come in nice like the Madagascar animals. I have been working with them for roughly 7 years and my oldest melleri is presently 6 years old. I feel like I have figured them out, but there is always more to learn.

Mentioned above was the comment that they require more money to care for. This can be true and false. One thing that is true, is that they should NOT be compared to parsonii. Parsonii are stagnant creatures compared to melleri. Most keepers of parsonii have great success in enclosures that are more on the small side in relation to their size. And if you saw the cages it wouldn't register that an animal that size could be doing so well in an enclosure that size. But melleri need ROOM. They are incredibly active. Watching them over time, I have realized that one of their largest stressors is visual boundaries. That is why I keep mine in greenhouses now. The difference is night and day. They will also utilize all areas of their enclosure. This is where the money issue comes into play. You have to be able to accommodate this need. That doesn't mean you have to spend a ton of money if you are handy. I built my greenhouses and was able to cut costs that way.

I can give you more information if you need it. I know you are looking to get some melleri. I will reply to your PM in regards to that. Glad to see someone else getting interested in keeping this species. They are really the best in regards to having a chameleon with personality.

Thank you so much for offering your input! I'm all ears for whatever advice you can give. I've officially read every page of every one of your melleri threads on here, as well as whatever else I could find online, mostly the discovery page mentioned on this thread.

I'm aware of Tanzania being closed which makes things a little difficult for me, as I've spoken with a few importers already who basically brushed me off. They either reminded me they don't import well or encouraged me to look on kingsnake.com blah blah blah. I'm still awaiting response from FLChams and will try calling Two Amigos again after the holidays have passed.

@jpowell86 I completely understand that things are busy for everyone this time of year. I'm just glad to be able to hear from you about this species at all.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Thank you so much for offering your input! I'm all ears for whatever advice you can give. I've officially read every page of every one of your melleri threads on here, as well as whatever else I could find online, mostly the discovery page mentioned on this thread.

I'm aware of Tanzania being closed which makes things a little difficult for me, as I've spoken with a few importers already who basically brushed me off. They either reminded me they don't import well or encouraged me to look on kingsnake.com blah blah blah. I'm still awaiting response from FLChams and will try calling Two Amigos again after the holidays have passed.

@jpowell86 I completely understand that things are busy for everyone this time of year. I'm just glad to be able to hear from you about this species at all.

Please, please don't buy them through a middleman like FLChams. Buy directly from the importer. I've seen them when they come in and I wouldn't wish another move on a newly imported animal, especially a mellers. Better to deal with the importer directly so he gets the retail price and is more likely to pick you the best that he has left rather than just shipping off the poorer quality animal to the middleman.

If there isn't an importer within driving range of you--the real importer, the person who picks them up from US Fish and Wildlife after they've been inspected--it won't matter which importer you buy from. Just make sure they are the defacto person unpacking the box from Africa.

What seems to happen is that an importer will bring in a group of animals and then immediately send them off to the various wholesalers who sometimes pass themselves off as the "importer." It's just an extra step and stress on a already incredibly stressed animal.

Reptile Pets Direct in San Antonio imports a lot of mellers. I've gotten all my animals from them--they are local to me.

You were asking about juveniles. I looked over Reptile Pets Direct last import of melleri from Mozambique. There were 4 juveniles that I saw. One was in terrific condition. Another in not so good shape, but plumped up and became active immediately after I misted him. Two other juveniles looked close to death. A couple of the adults looked awful--well they all looked awful, really--and several were in reasonably good shape. It's a crap shoot when you are picking melleri. I'm not sure the small ones do as well as the mid-sized ones. Joel could answer you better on that.

 

[JoeDigiorgio]

Please, please don't buy them through a middleman like FLChams. Buy directly from the importer. I've seen them when they come in and I wouldn't wish another move on a newly imported animal, especially a mellers. Better to deal with the importer directly so he gets the retail price and is more likely to pick you the best that he has left rather than just shipping off the poorer quality animal to the middleman.

If there isn't an importer within driving range of you--the real importer, the person who picks them up from US Fish and Wildlife after they've been inspected--it won't matter which importer you buy from. Just make sure they are the defacto person unpacking the box from Africa.

What seems to happen is that an importer will bring in a group of animals and then immediately send them off to the various wholesalers who sometimes pass themselves off as the "importer." It's just an extra step and stress on a already incredibly stressed animal.

Reptile Pets Direct in San Antonio imports a lot of mellers. I've gotten all my animals from them--they are local to me.

You were asking about juveniles. I looked over Reptile Pets Direct last import of melleri from Mozambique. There were 4 juveniles that I saw. One was in terrific condition. Another in not so good shape, but plumped up and became active immediately after I misted him. Two other juveniles looked close to death. A couple of the adults looked awful--well they all looked awful, really--and several were in reasonably good shape. It's a crap shoot when you are picking melleri. I'm not sure the small ones do as well as the mid-sized ones. Joel could answer you better on that.

I was under the impression FLChams did directly import their chameleons. I might be wrong there?

I have made calls all over Florida this week and so far I haven't really talked to anyone who'd give me the time of day.

 

[nick barta]

Joe, I want to start by saying your patience and planning will give you the best for success with this species. If new chameleon owners had half your determination, death rates would greatly diminish. Joel and JaJean are your best sources for finding good CB or imports. Success to you!

CHEERS!

Nick

 

[jajeanpierre]

I was under the impression FLChams did directly import their chameleons. I might be wrong there?

I have made calls all over Florida this week and so far I haven't really talked to anyone who'd give me the time of day.

Not as far as I know. FLChams is just a distributor. They probably never lay their hands on the animal you get from them.

Your best bet is to ask Joel where to buy them from. I deal with Reptile Pets Direct because they are local and they import what I am working with. I suspect they are one of the bigger importers in the US but I really don't know. It was rather serendipitous that I actually found them. Reptile Pets Direct sells to individuals through his on-line store or brick-and-mortar store plus supplies pet shops and wholesalers.

Most of the stores that deal with the internet do not actually ever see the animal--they are drop shipped from the importer or other wholesaler. You might as well give the money to the importer and try to get the better animal of the group.

Why don't you ask Reptile Pets Direct when they are likely getting their next shipment of melleri? I know he does not want to get anything after June due to the heat but sometimes he isn't given the choice.

 

[Mawtyplant]

If you have specific questions, I worked with a bred melleri and am referenced on the Melleri Discovery website.

A few key points:
NEVER Baytril for adults, it does not react well and has killed them.

New arrivals, plan on 60-90 min showers, 1 to several times a day for 3 months or so.

As soon as the animals appear hydrated, treat them for parasites. Coccidia and worms are guaranteed.

They enjoy natural sunlight and can handle temps of 85-90F with lots of shade and water. Plan on using Mercury Vapor bulbs indoors.

Supplement 3-4 times a week with Calcium and an appropriate vitamin supplement containing preformed A. Use the vitamin supplements sparingly and I will provide advice on brands and my justifications through PM, if you'd like.

Raise you're own feeders and know that they are very ravenous feeders.

They are difficult and they are not. One one hand, a healthy animal will clearly tell you what it wants by its behavior and if you are good at reading chameleons, you'll pick it up quickly. On the other hand, an apparently healthy animal, such as an import that appears recovered, can crash or die unexpectedly in an instant. I'd compile a list and reach out to importers in your state and be willing to drive and cherry pick your own animals, and or buy CB, though that is tough to find. Avoid animal that are severely dehydrated ( almost all are pretty bad ), have swollen toes, limbs, or open wounds.

They are difficult to sex and it takes seeing lots of animals to learn to make fairly accurate guesses.

They are so worth it! This is by far the most interactive, passionate, rewarding experience with keeping fish, herps, and other flora and fauna, that I've ever experienced. They are worthy and deserving of our focus and getting them established as breeding populations in captivity.

I have a question about melleri keeping, is melleri need more preform vit a than other chameleon? Thank!

 

[Extensionofgreen]

I have a question about melleri keeping, is melleri need more preform vit a than other chameleon? Thank!

More preformed A, no, but given regularly at the proper dosage, absolutely. In my opinion, juveniles should be lightly supplemented no less than twice monthly and even as often as once weekly, depending on a variety of factors. The product you use and appropriate amounts will be variable, according to the animal's age, gender, health, hydration, and the type of lighting, temps, other supplements, prey gutloads, prey types, and other variables specific to each animal.
My best advice is to keep the hydrated, VERY hydrated, find a low dose product and use it weekly to every other week and observe your animal. If edema is noted, cut back. If eye problems develop, lethargy, or stunting occurs and can be ruled out as being cause by other factors, try supplementing more often. Gravid females should be getting low, weekly doses.
I like to look at products geared to smaller animals, such as dart frogs, which have much smaller doses and use these as I feel is appropriate. This is my experience, other's may vary.

 

[Twitchet]

Hi Drew, I need to get some fresh vit a soon, I can get dendrocare , it's difficult to source but wondered if you had ever used repashy vitamin a?
Hope you are well and you have good news?

 

[Mawtyplant]

More preformed A, no, but given regularly at the proper dosage, absolutely. In my opinion, juveniles should be lightly supplemented no less than twice monthly and even as often as once weekly, depending on a variety of factors. The product you use and appropriate amounts will be variable, according to the animal's age, gender, health, hydration, and the type of lighting, temps, other supplements, prey gutloads, prey types, and other variables specific to each animal.
My best advice is to keep the hydrated, VERY hydrated, find a low dose product and use it weekly to every other week and observe your animal. If edema is noted, cut back. If eye problems develop, lethargy, or stunting occurs and can be ruled out as being cause by other factors, try supplementing more often. Gravid females should be getting low, weekly doses.
I like to look at products geared to smaller animals, such as dart frogs, which have much smaller doses and use these as I feel is appropriate. This is my experience, other's may vary.

super, thank. Because actually i have two female probably gravid who seem do develop Vit A problem.. (eye problem by example) so i have start to give small doses of preform vit A but i am scared to overdose them. Any advise or dosage for me?

 

[Extensionofgreen]

super, thank. Because actually i have two female probably gravid who seem do develop Vit A problem.. (eye problem by example) so i have start to give small doses of preform vit A but i am scared to overdose them. Any advise or dosage for me?

Give small dosages twice a week, but back off if throat swelling manifest. Sometimes, by the time eye issues are showing, it can be very difficult to reverse the problem. You should consult an experienced vet, though my experience was that no vets had an answer for me at that time.

 

[Extensionofgreen]

Hi Drew, I need to get some fresh vit a soon, I can get dendrocare , it's difficult to source but wondered if you had ever used repashy vitamin a?
Hope you are well and you have good news?

I use the Repashy with my parsons and never noticed any gullar swelling or problems. I used Dendrocare and Repashy alternating between the 2. Usually the Dendrocare is safe once or twice a week and I use the Repashy twice a month. I don't always use supplements that often, and I sort of "feel" things out, based on how much they are consuming, drinking, and how active the are. The more water and prey they consume, the more I will supplement, but never exceeding my above schedule. If they are slower and eating less, they get a twice a month schedule. I also don't feed calcium at every feeding. I never supplement more than 3-4 times a week with any species, with any supplements. It's simply not needed and can cause harm, especially in montane or larger species. Exceptions might be made for gravid females, ailing, depleted imports, and certain individuals, but I've never had MBD manifest on a much more reduced schedule than the oft touted, calcium with every feeding. I use Repashy LoD once or twice a month, also.

 

[Mawtyplant]

Give small dosages twice a week, but back off if throat swelling manifest. Sometimes, by the time eye issues are showing, it can be very difficult to reverse the problem. You should consult an experienced vet, though my experience was that no vets had an answer for me at that time.

yeah for the vet.. but here i think im the only one with melleri.. so a good vet is really hard to fine. i try to go 2 weeks agoes and i get a antibiotic prescription for eye sweeling case (baytril.. but i refuse the treatment so i have trimsulfa for now ) but i just want too found why and too resorb the source.. cost me $ to know nothing at the end :/