Medicating my chameleon BUT stress??

[Nkr530]

Hi all,

Wanted to pick your brain on some troubles I'm having with my panther Irwin (named after Steve Irwin)

2 yrs old, has been doing great ever since we got him at 4 months. He's been a happy guy with cage setup we have had (we live in Florida so great humidity). Change the UVB bulb every 6-8 months, reptivite every feeding and with D3 a few times a month. Always a voracious eater. Overall a curious and super sweet guy

He started closing he eyes a few weeks ago. He was on Baytril 2.27% at 5mg/kg for 10 days (SID). No change. (Tried to keep him SUPER hydrated).

The vet did a fecal (negative), also did a mouth swab which tested positive for Streptococcus. The vet also did an eye stain to look at any eye damage (nothing seen). The vet also seems to think he has liver issues due to his mucous membranes being a yellowish color but decided not to do bloodwork at the visit as Irwin was already super stressed from being manhandeled. We are going on almost 4 weeks of this eyes closed behavior. Previously he was being fed by when being handled he opens his mouth and then sticking a bug in his mouth (dripping some water) and then he would eat/drink. Of course, this just creates stress over time and so now I've stopped doing that. His new antibiotic that the vet prescribed is Albon (SID for 7 days) and the vet also prescribed an eye ointment. I'm trying to coax him to drink Pedialyte advanced care (with prebiotics) during this to keep him very hydrated.

Do you all think I should create like a bug milkshake? Like blend some of his favorite bugs (superworms and hornworms)/fruits/pedialyte/veggies into a smoothie and then feed him with a dropper this way? It reduces handling him and he still doesnt like the plastic syringe prying his mouth open a little but once it's open Im also to drop liquid in and he swallows and I repeat this as much as I can. I hate to see him suffer but I want to try my best to bring him back to health with this new antibiotic and smoothie diet so that he doesn't become so depleted and gets nutrients in him.

Other than that he still climbs around his cage. Haven't seen him falling or anything. Just closed eyes and of course very easily startled since he can't see anything.

Thanks everyone.

 

[CalamityCrow]

I can't say much about the medicine side. There are folks with better knowledge here on those subjects who I'm certain will chime in.

In the meantime, can you post pictures of Irwin and his enclosure? Make sure to include the lights and a full picture of the enclosure. It's also a good idea to post pictures of the labels of your supplements too.

What have you been feeding him?

A great idea would be to fill out the following husbandry form. That'll help folks here get an idea of your husbandry and that can help folks identify where Irwin may be having struggles.

Eyes closed is usually a pretty dire sign. A month of it means there's something going on that needs to be corrected. I feel bad for your poor guy. I hope we can help you sort it out!

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

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Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi and welcome. First question is what part of Florida are you in? If you are in central FL, I strongly advise going to either Dr Bogoslavsky https://myavho.com/ or Dr Diaz https://www.orlandoexoticveterinarian.com/ Even though I have an exotics vet within walking distance, it’s well worth the hour drive to Orlando for Dr B. Both of those vets are very experienced with chameleons. Since your vet isn’t aware that the inside of chameleons mouths is naturally a yellow color, I’ll have to question their experience level.
You say you are giving ReptiVite every feeding? That may be at least part of your problem if not all of it. Reptivite is a multivitamin that contains preformed vitamin A, which is fat soluble and not quickly metabolized. Aside from getting way too many other vitamins, he is being overdosed with A. Also, he is not getting any calcium. He need to have a phosphorus free calcium without D3 lightly dusted at every feeding. Then one feeding every other week is when you’ll use the ReptiVite with D3. I’m not a vet, but I’d say to just use the plain calcium for every feeding and skip the ReptiVite with D3 at least once.
I’m not familiar with the new antibiotic you mention, but all medications are metabolized by either liver or kidneys. Proper hydration is essential regardless. What color are urates? If they are white or mostly white, that is great. If dark yellow or orange, you’ll need to help him along. My vet advised ReptiBoost as a nutrition booster for my guy who’s having trouble eating (stomatitis). It is a challenge getting a panther cham to open their mouth and does stress them, but it is a very brief stressor and is the only way to help them. Just make sure to aim for the back of the throat with any liquid as the airway is in the front. My guy hasn’t been wanting to eat because of his sore mouth so I’ve been giving him only soft feeders like wax worms and silkworms. It’s only for a short time, so I feel I can justify the wax worms. Instead of the ReptiBoostm you can make a bug smoothie if you like. It is a pretty gross thing to do (yeah…I’ve been there too) or try this recipe for bug juice. https://www.adcham.com/html/husbandry/bug-juice.html
I would also advise on the full husbandry review that @CalamityCrow suggests with pics.

 

[kinyonga]

Welcome to the forum!

You said…”The vet also seems to think he has liver issues due to his mucous membranes being a yellowish color”…I sure wish vets would realize that many Panther chameleons have yellow inside their mouths and it’s not a sign of liver issues.

Albon is usually used for coccidia in chameleons…but it’s frowned upon by some people…can’t remember why. In dogs and cats it’s used to kill bacteria too…it goes under the name Sulfadimethoxine I think.

 

[Beman]

reptivite every feeding and with D3 a few times a month

As already mentioned.... Reptivite every feeding with or without D3 means overdose. Reptivite without D3 has vitamin A which is fat soluble and can cause toxicity when given more than 2 times a month. Reptivite with D3 will do the same since it has vitamin A and D3 both being fat soluble and stored in tissues. Overdose causes their bodies to shut down.

I would fill out the husbandry review and post pics of your entire cage lights down, the chameleon, and if you could please post pics of the front labels of the supplements you are using.

 

[MzLaurie11]

Well hello! I am glad misskittles went over the supplements with you. The strep infection is very serious in humans and it maybe possible that it is in your chams eyes. We know it as pink eye. When in the nose throat we kniw it as strep throat. Both are very contagious so with that info glove up while handling your cham. when was the last time your boy molted? The reason why i ask is my female panther got left out in the sun to die. Both eyelids got sunburned. Till this day she has trouble molting her eyes and will keep her eyes shut till i help it along if i can. the florida sun is very strong so make sure you boy has plenty of shade when out in it. I trained my male how to drink from a syringe. It takes patience and at first i was always soaked. But once he got the hang of it, now he grabs the syringe with his mouth and drinks up. Unfortunately my female requires the jaws of life to get her mouth open! But we are still working on it. Good luck to you! Please keep us posted.