MBD in my Chameleon

[CloversWeb]

I have a female veiled Chameleon. Before purchasing our baby in October 2015 we did as much research as we could on owning a Chameleon.

However, as newbies we didn't know about females laying eggs until we came across the Chameleon forum. She laid her first Clutch a year ago successfully!

However, recently she started to develop bumps on her legs and developed and irritated eye. We took her into a vet, had an xray done to co firm she had eggs as well as to view her bones. The vet aspirated the bumps and sent us home with eye drops and a hand out on setting up the cage husbandry. No explanation on bumps.

A month later, more bumps appear and our Chameleon was unable to climb and sits on the floor. Again, I research through the forum and learn that the UVB bulb needs to be changed every 6 months. I feel highly stressed and guilty and mad for not knowing this vital information because we were using the same UVB bulb from Oct 2017. I research more and totally lose it when I read the symptoms and causes of MBD and immediately take our Chameleon to another vet and second opinion. She does have MBD! We were instructed to give her warm baths twice a day. We moved her heating bulb and UVB light to the bottom of her cage through the use of desk lamps. I added a warm mist humidifier. She takes a liquid calcium twice a day from the vet and an antibiotic once a day. Also, 5 minutes daily in the outside sun. Yesterday, she has become weaker to the point that my son has to open her mouth and feed her and we use the syringe to place drops of water in her mouth.
Is there anything else I can do? I worry about her being weak, egg bound and constipated? Thinking I should take her back to the vet. She cant grip our hands, she doesnt hiss at us picking her up to medicate her and bath her. She has little energy. The most movement i get from ber is when she is outside.
I hate knowing that this is my fault for not knowing about the UVB. I did suggest to the pet store and vet to please inform it's new adopters to know because my son and I are trying so hard to make our Chameleon better.

 

[Beelinn]

What does she, well, had she been eating? What do you dust with? This sounds much worse than what a simple older uvb light could do honestly. A lights age, they don't just stop producing their output, it's a steady decrease over time.

There are some on here that have a recipe for emergency diet care so hopefully they chime in. Or you can keep searching different threads and I'm sure you'll find it.

 

[CloversWeb]

What does she, well, had she been eating? What do you dust with? This sounds much worse than what a simple older uvb light could do honestly. A lights age, they don't just stop producing their output, it's a steady decrease over time.

There are some on here that have a recipe for emergency diet care so hopefully they chime in. Or you can keep searching different threads and I'm sure you'll find it.

We use the Zoo Med Repti Calcium with D3 for her crickets and wax worms. Currently, it is easier for my son to feed her wax worms vs crickets. I am going to call the vet in a few to see if they can squeeze us in.

 

[kinyonga]

Please post a photo of her right front leg and foot so I can see it completely.
Did the x-ray show eggs or follicles because I suspect eggbinding as well as her other problems.

 

[CloversWeb]

I called the vet and they told me to continue doing what we are doing. I may go in on Thursday for xrays to see if she is egg bound. She doesn't have the strength to lay eggs and I stressed my concern about her having eggs from the last xray a month ago.

 

[CloversWeb]

Please post a photo of her right front leg and foot so Incan see it completely.
Did the x-ray show eggs or follicles because I suspect eggbinding g as well as her other problems.

 

[CloversWeb]

She does have eggs. I asked the vet about her not being strong enough to pass the eggs on her own. They told me to keep doing what I am doing and that MBD takes a long time for her to recover from.
I may go take her for xrays on Thursday to make sure ahe is not egg bound.

 

[kinyonga]

Those feet and ankles are concerning. I'm not a vet so I can't be sure if it's edema or an infection or mayeb even something like gout.
I doubt that she's strong enough to lay the eggs too. Poor girl is in a bad way, sadly.

 

[jajeanpierre]

@CloversWeb I'm really sorry she is in such rough shape.

I am no vet, but the swellings on her feet look like it could be gout. Gout is the deposit of uric acid crystals in the body. These deposits could be anywhere, including organs and joints. Uric acid is the end product of protein metabolism and is removed from the blood by the kidneys and excreted as urates--that's the white part of stool. If the kidneys fail, there is an excess build up of uric acid in the blood. Since it isn't very soluble in water (blood), it precipitates out of the blood.

There are a couple of usual causes of gout--too much protein in the diet or kidney failure. Kidney failure can be caused by chronic low level dehydration or even one single event. Keeping a rain forest chameleon in a dry environment can cause chronic dehydration. They really need very humid air to be able to stay hydrated. If you have been feeding your chameleon only insects and not gut loading them with high-protein things like dog food, diet should not be the cause of gout.

It seems she also has MBD which can also be caused by renal (kidney) failure.

If she were mine, I would be asking for another opinion and, to be honest, likely euthanizing. While we all want them to get better, if she has renal failure or gout, she won't get better. Eggs make everything worse. Much, much worse.

I know this is not what you wanted to read and I am truly sorry you and your chameleon are going through this.

 

[CloversWeb]

@CloversWeb I'm really sorry she is in such rough shape.

I am no vet, but the swellings on her feet look like it could be gout. Gout is the deposit of uric acid crystals in the body. These deposits could be anywhere, including organs and joints. Uric acid is the end product of protein metabolism and is removed from the blood by the kidneys and excreted as urates--that's the white part of stool. If the kidneys fail, there is an excess build up of uric acid in the blood. Since it isn't very soluble in water (blood), it precipitates out of the blood.

There are a couple of usual causes of gout--too much protein in the diet or kidney failure. Kidney failure can be caused by chronic low level dehydration or even one single event. Keeping a rain forest chameleon in a dry environment can cause chronic dehydration. They really need very humid air to be able to stay hydrated. If you have been feeding your chameleon only insects and not gut loading them with high-protein things like dog food, diet should not be the cause of gout.

It seems she also has MBD which can also be caused by renal (kidney) failure.

If she were mine, I would be asking for another opinion and, to be honest, likely euthanizing. While we all want them to get better, if she has renal failure or gout, she won't get better. Eggs make everything worse. Much, much worse.

I know this is not what you wanted to read and I am truly sorry you and your chameleon are going through this.

The first vet aspirated her bumps but could only say that there were no signs of infection and she was unsure what was causing it.
I did complain to the particular office after seeing a second vet and was told she had MAD.
Our second vet said she could biopsy the bumps later to check for mites but more than likely the mites would be dead.
Her swelling today looks better but she is still very weak and sleeps alot.
This is our first reptile and I have explained to both vets that we have done alot of research of taking care of such a delicate creature. I feel somewhat that I have failed our Chameleon for not knowing about the UVB lighting and am disappointed in the first vet not catching the MBD signs. I am heart broken!
We are literally doing everything we can for our sweet little girl.
Thursday I plan to take her in for more tests and certainly do not want to prolong any suffering if she is.

 

[Beelinn]

Poor baby girl. I'm so sorry she's going through this, and you as well. Try not to be too hard on yourself. If the worst happens, don't be afraid to have one of these wonderful creatures again, everyone here is very very helpful and can guide you correctly from the start extra time.

 

[jajeanpierre]

The first vet aspirated her bumps but could only say that there were no signs of infection and she was unsure what was causing it.
I did complain to the particular office after seeing a second vet and was told she had MAD.
Our second vet said she could biopsy the bumps later to check for mites but more than likely the mites would be dead.
Her swelling today looks better but she is still very weak and sleeps alot.
This is our first reptile and I have explained to both vets that we have done alot of research of taking care of such a delicate creature. I feel somewhat that I have failed our Chameleon for not knowing about the UVB lighting and am disappointed in the first vet not catching the MBD signs. I am heart broken!
We are literally doing everything we can for our sweet little girl.
Thursday I plan to take her in for more tests and certainly do not want to prolong any suffering if she is.

I am confused about the explanation the vet has given you. I'm sure you are misunderstanding something because mites and biopsy don't go together. I am not sure your vet has a enough reptile experience. I'm also not sure the best reptile vet in the world could help. Can you find a reptile vet?

As I tried to explain, kidney failure is a cause of Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD). It also causes gout. Chronic dehydration--a very common problem of chameleons kept in screen cages with no automatic misting system or living plants--is a major cause of kidney failure. These creatures need high humidity to thrive.

MBD is also caused by nutrition--not enough calcium in the diet or not enough Vitamin D. Vitamin D is produced by the animal when exposed to UVB from good lights or natural sunlight.

I'm really sorry you are going through this.

 

[Andee]

I agree it's like a combination of MBD and some sort of gout. The lumps on her wrists and hands are too localized to look like a break, though infection is possible I don't feel that's what this is but I am honestly just saying this based off a hunch and several things I have seen on both the forum and in person. I don't think she can lay. The ONLY way I think she will survive is to get her strong enough to be able to be spayed... I am sorry sweetie, for both you, your son, and her.

 

[HerbertHancock]

Anyone else feel free to correct me but if you have been using calcium with D3 every feeding that would be too much, right? You need plain calcium every feeding, alternating calcium w/d3 and a multivitamin once every 2 weeks.

 

[Andee]

Yes this is true, but also the MBD isn't the thing that is the worst currently. And likely she has already passed.

 

[Rogue]

If she is still surviving, I would suggest more than 5 minutes of outdoor time. Perhaps, an hour if it isn't too hot where you live. If it is, then during early morning or late evening. I am so sorry for your family and your little girl.