Marcus the school lamb

[Rocky]

the reason the "defenders" jump to conclusions is because of this

2/. The meat industry is not a fluffy cuddly business where animals are hand reared by loving children. Animals are abused, fed unnatural diets, reared on a cocktail of antibiotics and drugs just to keep them standing - that is the reality of the meat business.

Taken from the first article. I'm not trying to bully anyone, just voicing my opinion on the subject.

 

[pssh]

I see, well, I'm pretty sure people understand that the industry isn't rainbows and unicorns.

I wasn't talking to you, just Emma... I don't understand her logic or words and I assume she's older than me, but it's hard to tell.

 

[WelshOneEmma]

I don't understand the facebook thing at all, Emma. I may be misreading your post, but from what I understand is that you think that I think people who eat meat are evil? The reason I became a vegetarian and why I still am one are very different. I became one when I was young because I liked animals and couldn't stand the thought of eating them. I now eat fish and seafood and I continue to not eat meat beacuse I think it tastes gross.

I don't understand why you are so upset with me? I just thought I'd add a younger perspective as I am, after all, only 15. Do you think that it's okay to 'bully' children? Cause that may explain why you feel the way you do about the lamb and about me.

Out of curiosity, why do you believe animals are different from people? Or maybe I should say lower than people?

Something for everyone, why do most of the meat "defenders" jump to the conclusion that others think all animals are tortured? Or that vegitarians are crazy animal freaks?

EDIT: Emma, I, now, see that you think I don't think this woman is evil? Wtf? You are the one with no perspective, you agree and disagree with me at the same time but agrue with me also. I don't understand you at all, and probably never will, so I'd appreciate it if you'd stop stabbing at me with your words that make no sense to me.

The facebook comment is that your first quote was used, to argue the point that Andrea Charman is evil for what she has done, and should be sacked. yet when you stated you didn't think that she was evil or should be sacked, just that the project was shut down, this was not used. THAT was my point. They have stated on these facebook pages that this woman is an "evil sick bitch", and if you are not vegetarian, you advocate the torture and murder of animals (it states that too).

Yes, children are exposed to more violence these days, but more in the home and not at school. Society is going down hill, and PARENTS are the ones to teach values and that violence is not the way forward. I agree that the children may have been a little young, but what has annoyed me about this, is that the people who are calling for her resignation DON'T have children in her school, feel that everyone should be vegetarian and we are wrong for eating meat (evil if you will). If you want to apply human rights to animals, which these seem to, none of us should have chams (are they not evil for eating live food?) as we should not be allowed to have animals (false impriosonment if you will). And you can't argue with these people, as they just respond with the 'argument' that you are evil for thinking that eating meat is ok, and this woman does deserve to lose her job. Does nobody understand that this would have had to go to the school council and LEA, and parents, to approve?

Next time you decide to have a go at me for having 'no perspective' I suggest that you re-read your comments before posting. And yes I am older than you, which is why I am trying to construct my comments more reasonably without resorting to 'wtf' and personal digs. The whole point of a debate is that people listen to the others opinion without resorting to childish comments.

 

[Chamgirl]

Well I have never called the head teacher an 'evil sick bitch', in fact I was very polite to her daughter that joined one of our 4 main groups. I told her I don't blame her for defending her mother but that we will never agree on the issue.
Quote from WelshOneEmma:-
but what has annoyed me about this, is that the people who are calling for her resignation DON'T have children in her school, feel that everyone should be vegetarian and we are wrong for eating meat (evil if you will).

WelshoneEmma I'd appreciate it if you didn't say this garbage. I don't feel everyone should be vegetarian and that people are wrong for eating meat. My fiancee eats meat and most of my friends eat meat. Get your facts right, a lot of parents at Lydd school have signed our petition. One of the 4 main groups called Save Marcus the Lamb was started by a parent at Lydd (and she has now taken her daughters out of that school in protest).

I did not start this topic for an argument or to be insulted. I hoped to gain support for the petition. If just one person has signed it then I am delighted and it has all been worth it. I am now admin on two of the main groups and will carry on promoting the cause. I won't let a rude member on here put me off.

 

[WelshOneEmma]

Well I have never called the head teacher an 'evil sick bitch', in fact I was very polite to her daughter that joined one of our 4 main groups. I told her I don't blame her for defending her mother but that we will never agree on the issue.
Quote from WelshOneEmma:-
but what has annoyed me about this, is that the people who are calling for her resignation DON'T have children in her school, feel that everyone should be vegetarian and we are wrong for eating meat (evil if you will).

WelshoneEmma I'd appreciate it if you didn't say this garbage. I don't feel everyone should be vegetarian and that people are wrong for eating meat. My fiancee eats meat and most of my friends eat meat. Get your facts right, a lot of parents at Lydd school have signed our petition. One of the 4 main groups called Save Marcus the Lamb was started by a parent at Lydd (and she has now taken her daughters out of that school in protest).

I did not start this topic for an argument or to be insulted. I hoped to gain support for the petition. If just one person has signed it then I am delighted and it has all been worth it. I am now admin on two of the main groups and will carry on promoting the cause. I won't let a rude member on here put me off.

I am not being rude, I am stating MY opinion. Where have I been rude? As for my facts, I spent a good deal of my evening looking at the facebook group comments, and that is where I got my 'garbage'. Did I say that YOU personally had called her an "evil sick bitch"? No I did not, I stated that this is what is said on the page of one of the Facebook groups you are now on. Are the majority of people on these groups not saying cruel, and rude things? Are they not stating she is a murderer? Are you telling me that all the people on these groups have children in the school? I appreciate that it was started by one parent, but are you telling me that all the parents protested this and have joined the group? Or have they been caught up with all the media?

If you are going to promote causes such as this, you need to be prepared that not everyone will agree with you, and that when this is the case, you debate with facts, reason and politeness, rather than throwing comments like "get your facts straight" and "you are talking garbage". Show me all the correspondance fromparents saying that they did not want this being done, BEFORE the media storm took hold. Show me the proof that she didn't go ahead regardless of what parents, the school governers and council and LEA thought. And show me that in her 21 years of teaching and turning around schools where she has been a bad teacher? I am quoting from the Facebook Groups that you are promoting.

 

[jojackson]

I'm not age 6-11, but I was around it when I was that age and I didn't go torture animals nor do I believe it altered me in anyway. I do agree that it is a parents right to decide if their child should be subject to that or not, but I don't agree that it is harming them in anyway.

Me either in this case, but Im not one of the parents LOL

I really doubt that those kids that tortured those animals in those articles raised livestock.

Also, while you may not have said the animal was tortured that's what they are acting like happened when they talk about the kids having to deal with the animal being "murdered". When I was talking about the torture quotes I was talking about those articles not what you said jo.

Ok understood

I'm trying to point out that raising animals for slaughter doesn't make you disrespect animals or their life. I was raised with alot of kids that did this very same thing (raise livestock for show and then market) and none of them showed any disrespect towards living things.

I agree, Im merely saying, it may have negative effects on Some kids.
Without being able to talk to the kids involved we cant know if any were traumatised by the descision, then or after if the parents explained what they voted for.

We're in Agreement that parents should have been involved.

WelshEmma and Chamgirl,
clearly there was a media beatup about the whole issue (uk media for ya LOL ) none of it should be concern for anyone other than those involved, teachers, kids, parents of that school. If it was proposed as a standard curriculum , then it involves any parent in the uk with kids at school. I reason folk who commented who are not parents of kids at the school, is they fear this kind of approach to teaching will take hold, perhaps that it might be done at their kids kids school too.
Its not unreasonable for a parent to have objections to what and how something is taught in schools. What goes unchallenged, may become the norm.
If anything, the school board or equivalent needs to address better communication with parents in general at this school.
The teacher wasnt to blame as such, I dont think we got to hear from her/him at all? Perhaps he/she objected but was overruled.
No need to be sacking anyone, but a meeting with these kids parents might be conductive to resolution.

Please leave the vegetarian/meatlover debate entirely out of it guys, it appeals to emotions already running high and has no real importance in this case.

Ive had enough of the whole thing already anyway, different folks, different strokes!
Cheers

 

[WelshOneEmma]

I agree, Im merely saying, it may have negative effects on Some kids.
Without being able to talk to the kids involved we cant know if any were traumatised by the descision, then or after if the parents explained what they voted for.

We're in Agreement that parents should have been involved.

By all accounts, the parents were involved. The problem we are faced with now, is that this subject (over here) is being hijacked by a lot of people who are only interested in causing trouble. And obviously people use what they want for their arguments. According to some 'parents', they knew about this back in June, and only now has this kicked off. Is this true? I don't know because I have not been involved from the start, but neither have 99% of the people who have signed this petition, or joined all these FB groups.

I will happily admit I am wrong, IF IT IS PROVED that this teacher has done something despite being told not to be everyone involved, and if indeed all the children in the school are traumatised and require counselling. Its the Jonathon Ross and Russell Brand thing all over again. People jumping on the band wagon.

 

[jojackson]

Thats the media. once they get involved, it always grows out of proportion because more become involved.

An example recently over here of media hijacking. This caused massive media attention and every bloke and his dog always has an opinion.
Radio 'shock jock' (read idiot) first gaff involves putting a lie detector on a very young girl and asking about her sexual activity, during which she breaks down in tears and admits to being raped. (she's well under age).
Then 2 weeks later, he makes a nasty mindless jibe at polish born actress Magda subanski about her weight, saying she'd lose weight if you put her in a concentration camp.
So folks call for him to be sacked, he is sacked from TV but keeps his radio job.

http://www.watoday.com.au/entertainment/kyles-big-mouth-in-nasty-relapse-20090909-fgfx.html

 

[WelshOneEmma]

I did read about the radio thing, but hadn't heard any more. I thought he had been sacked from the radio job (that's what the BBC website said). That's the problem these days, you have to do a lot of research on the issue before you can have a reasoned discussion about it.

 

[jojackson]

Absolutely, so many conflicting media versions makers it difficult to assess any story.
I tend to take most media storys with a shrug, extract the general gist of it and simply make my own private conclusions.
So many events/descisions etc reported these days make little sense, like a parole board allowing a convicted peadaphile to live directly accross the street from a public school on release.
Most sane people are left wondering what the hell they are thinking, and no wonder so many get upset and have strong feelings when these things are reported in the media.
I think most of the worlds media have quite alot to answer for.
It almost seems like there must be a rule for media folk, never to get the facts directly from those involved, because a better version will come from somebody who heard somebody say......etc

 

[WelshOneEmma]

This has been my point throughout this. There is a huge media storm where it is difficult to ascertain the facts, and as none of us commenting have children in this school, we are unable to accurately comment on the whole situation. I have spent a good portion of last night and this evening looking into it, as I try not comment on something until I have looked into it and tried to ascertain the facts.

The majority of the people who have signed this petition appear to be extreme vegetarians, who are saying that people who eat meat are cruel and lacking in compassion. They are also talking about referring the matter to PETA and the RSPCA. I know this because I spent the time reading all the abusive posts (both from people for and against the headmistress) which don't help anyone's cause. The only one who was truely polite was the head teachers daughter who was trying to explain the facts of the case.

That's the only reason I made the comment about the veggies/meat lovers. Some of my best friends are veggies, I think it's great if you can stick to that, but not everyone wants to, and they shouldn't be abused by people who share a different view.

And PSSH, I would like to know exactly how I have bullied you? I merely stated an opinion, and pointed out that only part of your comment was used to 'further the cause'. How is that stabbing at you?

And for the record, I had a pet lamb growing up that was sold to the farmer when she got too big. I am not as heartless as people appear to think. Maybe if people calmed down we could try to talk in a more polite yet reasoned way with each other?

 

[pssh]

Calling me childish wasn't stabbing at me or bullying me? You also said I have no perspecive.
That wasn't your opinion on the thread, it was about me, which was wrong.

 

[WelshOneEmma]

Calling me childish wasn't stabbing at me or bullying me? You also said I have no perspecive.
That wasn't your opinion on the thread, it was about me, which was wrong.

Please show me the quote where I said you had no perspective? I merely stated that if you were to have a go at me for having no perspective (which you did) to be able to back this up having thoroughly read my comment.

And yes, I do think that 'wtf' is a childish response, regardless of who uses it. Stating that a response is not well reasoned is not bullying, it is a comment. I also made this comment AFTER you accused me of bullying you.

 

[pssh]

I said wtf once, I'm fifteen. It's common laguage on the Internet, you know, where we happen to be talking. Do you get mad at everyone whos grammar and spelling is bad? Or who uses lol and wtf? Or am I just special?
You quoted my comment, went off about meat eaters being evil and said somepeople have no perspective these days, I'm assuming that you meant me because you quoted what I wrote.

The whole reason were having this conversation is because you pick apart what I say and tell me I'm wrong. You don't give your opinion, you told me I'm wrong. You said that the animal comment I made was wrong. You also said that my jury comment didn't apply, and I told you what I meant by it yet you still decided to get upset about my words being used to argue against this teacher. I didn't know my words were used that way, so why you complain to me, I have no idea.

The point is, you called me/the wat I type childish and told me I was wrong more than once. Is that enough reason for you?

 

[WelshOneEmma]

I said wtf once, I'm fifteen. It's common laguage on the Internet, you know, where we happen to be talking. Do you get mad at everyone whos grammar and spelling is bad? Or who uses lol and wtf? Or am I just special?
You quoted my comment, went off about meat eaters being evil and said somepeople have no perspective these days, I'm assuming that you meant me because you quoted what I wrote.

The whole reason were having this conversation is because you pick apart what I say and tell me I'm wrong. You don't give your opinion, you told me I'm wrong. You said that the animal comment I made was wrong. You also said that my jury comment didn't apply, and I told you what I meant by it yet you still decided to get upset about my words being used to argue against this teacher. I didn't know my words were used that way, so why you complain to me, I have no idea.

The point is, you called me/the wat I type childish and told me I was wrong more than once. Is that enough reason for you?

Yes, I do get annoyed with everyone on the internet for bad language. That is my personal opinion. Text talk etc makes it confusing to read, and I personally believe that where possible, people should take the time to spell correctly. I realise that spelling mistakes happen, I just think 'wtf' and 'lol' are bad English (I don't use these myself, but that is my choice).

I clearly stated that your first comment was used, but not your second, and then clearly pointed out the other comments on the Facebook page. At no point did I say these comments came from you (because they didn't). And for the record, ChamGirl stated that she was going to use your comment, and asked your permission to do so.

You have obviously decided that I am bullying you, and have read all my comments as thus. I have no interest in arguing with you. This thread was about something that has happened in the UK, and people have voiced their opinions on it. Let's stick to the thread topic.