Male Panther has turned grey. What can I do?

Lpsouth1978

Avid Member
Hello all. It has been a while since I last posted on here because things have been going well for my guy Chuck Norris. However, over the last few months he has lost virtually ALL of his color and is totally grey. He acts normal, eats like crazy, drinks regularly, everything seems good, except his color.

Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Male Ambilobe x Ambanja, 1 year old, in my care since July 2020
  • Handling - Almost never, he tolerates me at feeding time, but rarely comes out. I will take him outside once a month or so, but let him do his thing most of the time.
  • Feeding - He eats almost exclusively crickets. I have tried other insects (Dubia, hornworms, BSFL, but he won't touch them). He usually gets 4-6 XL crickets every 2-3 days. Crickets are fed Bug Burger and Badass Bugs gutload as well as carrots, turnip greens and dandelion greens.
  • Supplements - I dust all feeders with Repti-cal w/no D3 every feeding and alternate Repti-cal w/D3 and Reptivite one feeding a week (gets each 2x.month).
  • Watering - I have a Mist King misting system with 3x nozzles. The enclosure gets misted for 3 min @ 11am and 4pm, then 30 seconds @10pm and 2am (to keep humidity up at night)
  • Fecal Description - Feces looks good, ~2/3 brown 1/3 white, maybe a tinge of yellow at the end. Solid, not runny. He has NOT been tested for parasites.
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Reptibreeze XL screen cage - 48" tall x 24" x 24". I have the sides and back wrapped in plastic to help with humidity front, top, and bottom are open.
  • Lighting - Reptisun 5.0 T5 UVB replaced a couple months ago. 50W reptile basking bulk in a dome, and 3 x 4000k T5 plant bulbs. All lights come on @ 9am and off @ 9pm.
  • Temperature - Basking ~ 90-95, otherwise 78 on bottom of cage (room temp). Lowest overnight temp ~68 during winter, ~75 in summer. Measured with digital thermometers placed throughout the enclosure, Temp probe on basking spot, and laser thermometer for spot checks.
  • Humidity - During day 35-45% maintained via misting and plastic wrapped around 3 sides of enclosure. Up to 100% during the night using 2x cool mist humidifiers with hoses at the top of the enclosure. There are several digital Hygrometers in the enclosure as well as a probe near the basking spot.
  • Plants - All plants are live - 3 x Pothos, 2 x Bromeliads, and a Schefflera.
  • Placement - The enclosure is in the dining nook (off the kitchen), there is a ceiling fan nearby, but it is rarely turned on. I live alone, so there isn't really a high traffic area in the home. Top of the cage is ~ 6.5' off the ground
  • Location - I am located near Phoenix, AZ

Until recently, the cage was in my bedroom with almost NO natural light. I moved the cage to its current location in the dining nook a couple weeks ago. It now sits in front of a window and gets lots of natural sun light (ZERO direct sunlight. The window faces north).

November 15, 2020
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April 15, 2021
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Is the new place where the enclosure at a higher traffic place (meaning you/other people, dogs, etc are around more and he can see y’all?)
 
No more than before. Like I said, I live alone, so it is only me and I am only home for a couple hours each night and on weekends. Probably sees less of me, since most of the time I am in my bedroom when I am home. I moved him thinking maybe natural sun light would help.
 
Hi at his age I would be feeding him every other day (or smaller amounts every day not every 3 days) humidity is a bit low for a panther 50 / 60 % . Day. He looks a bit thin has he had a fecal done ?
 
Hi at his age I would be feeding him every other day (or smaller amounts every day not every 3 days) humidity is a bit low for a panther 50 / 60 % . Day. He looks a bit thin has he had a fecal done ?
I can easily increase the feedings, I was under the impression that by a year 2-3x a week was preferred. Could that cause such a dramatic loss of color though? Keeping humidity high in AZ is quite tricky. I could add another misting session during the day, but then I worry the cage wouldn't have time to dry out before the next misting.

He has not had a fecal.
 
Hi 2/3 feeders every other day not a week. Is your enclosure open or closed in back and sides do you have any pictures? I would recommend getting a fecal done. None of this may have anything to do with colour lose but having a full picture of your husbandry will better help the members here help
 
Hi 2/3 feeders every other day not a week. Is your enclosure open or closed in back and sides do you have any pictures? I would recommend getting a fecal done. None of this may have anything to do with colour lose but having a full picture of your husbandry will better help the members here help
Sorry, I said 2-3 FEEDINGS, I give him ~6 XL Crickets each feeding, so ~12-18 XL crickets a week. The enclosure is wrapped on both sides and the back. Not just a shower curtain, but window film, so it is water tight on sides and back. I forgot that there is also a Spider Plant in there. The lower part of the cage is pretty bare because the lower pants always die.

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I did, however it seems like the cause is never found and typically the solution is never discovered. The threads just end with no resolution.
 
Male panthers have color intensity fluctuations and can be a bit dull or faded at times of the year but this is beyond any I have seen. I was hoping to see the pictures and be able to say it was probably hormonal and normal or pre-shed dullness. If it is a seasonal fluctuation it is the most dramatic I have ever seen. If he starts to color back up in the future that may be what it was. In the mean time I would continue to look for other answers.
 
Few things, your basking temp is too hot. As Flick boy mentioned, drop that basking temp. to the mid to high 80s (80-85). He could be getting lighter in color due to the high basking temp... My guess is since it's only 78 degrees at the bottom of the cage, around the basking branch it could potentially still be pretty warm for him and he isn't able to escape the heat and cool down when he needs to. I'm just throwing out some ideas here lol.

Also, those could just be his new resting colors. Try and get him some natural, unfiltered sunlight for at least 30 mins a couple times per week if weather in Phoenix permits.

I would not worry about raising your humidity levels throughout the day since you practice increasing the humidity levels overnight and he is hydrated since his urates are white and poop is solid.
 
Thank you all for your thoughts. I will decrease the basking temp. Would it be worth while to lower the ambient temperature? As you know it gets very hot in Phoenix, so it is quite expensive to lower the temps even a couple degrees, but am willing if it would make a significant difference.
 
I have a panther that has similarly paled, although not as much as yours. My guy has never been terribly vivid - I adopted him about 6 months ago from someone who had incorrect husbandry and he’s had some problems. I’ve taken him to 2 vets and aside from some mbd and suspected vitamin A deficiency - both now halted/corrected - nothing else has been found. I’ve followed the recommendations of the better vet. Every day I re-evaluate and ask myself what am I doing wrong, but I have everything as perfect as I can. I asked the vet if I should bring him back and he told me to wait another 6-8 weeks. Then another member helped me to find this https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/panthers-mid-life-crisis-color-change.76455/ (thanks @Klyde O'Scope ) My sweet little guy is eating well and enthusiastically, basks and is active...he’s just pale (and does have a bad eye). So all I can do is wait it out and hopefully his color will return and even more hopefully, will be as vivid as it should be.
 
I'm new here, but I might suggest testing your cage for UV levels using a solarmeter or other detector if you haven't and make sure the plant lights and Reptisun aren't overexposing Chuck to any type of radiation and that he has plenty of space in the cage to be out of the radiation. Just a thought.
 
Hello all. It has been a while since I last posted on here because things have been going well for my guy Chuck Norris. However, over the last few months he has lost virtually ALL of his color and is totally grey. He acts normal, eats like crazy, drinks regularly, everything seems good, except his color.

Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Male Ambilobe x Ambanja, 1 year old, in my care since July 2020
  • Handling - Almost never, he tolerates me at feeding time, but rarely comes out. I will take him outside once a month or so, but let him do his thing most of the time.
  • Feeding - He eats almost exclusively crickets. I have tried other insects (Dubia, hornworms, BSFL, but he won't touch them). He usually gets 4-6 XL crickets every 2-3 days. Crickets are fed Bug Burger and Badass Bugs gutload as well as carrots, turnip greens and dandelion greens.
  • Supplements - I dust all feeders with Repti-cal w/no D3 every feeding and alternate Repti-cal w/D3 and Reptivite one feeding a week (gets each 2x.month).
  • Watering - I have a Mist King misting system with 3x nozzles. The enclosure gets misted for 3 min @ 11am and 4pm, then 30 seconds @10pm and 2am (to keep humidity up at night)
  • Fecal Description - Feces looks good, ~2/3 brown 1/3 white, maybe a tinge of yellow at the end. Solid, not runny. He has NOT been tested for parasites.
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Reptibreeze XL screen cage - 48" tall x 24" x 24". I have the sides and back wrapped in plastic to help with humidity front, top, and bottom are open.
  • Lighting - Reptisun 5.0 T5 UVB replaced a couple months ago. 50W reptile basking bulk in a dome, and 3 x 4000k T5 plant bulbs. All lights come on @ 9am and off @ 9pm.
  • Temperature - Basking ~ 90-95, otherwise 78 on bottom of cage (room temp). Lowest overnight temp ~68 during winter, ~75 in summer. Measured with digital thermometers placed throughout the enclosure, Temp probe on basking spot, and laser thermometer for spot checks.
  • Humidity - During day 35-45% maintained via misting and plastic wrapped around 3 sides of enclosure. Up to 100% during the night using 2x cool mist humidifiers with hoses at the top of the enclosure. There are several digital Hygrometers in the enclosure as well as a probe near the basking spot.
  • Plants - All plants are live - 3 x Pothos, 2 x Bromeliads, and a Schefflera.
  • Placement - The enclosure is in the dining nook (off the kitchen), there is a ceiling fan nearby, but it is rarely turned on. I live alone, so there isn't really a high traffic area in the home. Top of the cage is ~ 6.5' off the ground
  • Location - I am located near Phoenix, AZ

Until recently, the cage was in my bedroom with almost NO natural light. I moved the cage to its current location in the dining nook a couple weeks ago. It now sits in front of a window and gets lots of natural sun light (ZERO direct sunlight. The window faces north).

November 15, 2020View attachment 298799


April 15, 2021
View attachment 298800
Hi just wondering is your t5 uvb a linear long fluorescent tube
 
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